PDA

View Full Version : Study: Gays in military don't hurt ability to fight


Saguaro
07-07-2008, 09:48 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress should repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" law because the presence of gays in the military is unlikely to undermine the ability to fight and win, according to a new study released by a California-based research center.

The study was conducted by four retired military officers, including the three-star Air Force lieutenant general who in early 1993 was tasked with implementing President Clinton's policy that the military stop questioning recruits on their sexual orientation.

"Evidence shows that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly is unlikely to pose any significant risk to morale, good order, discipline or cohesion," the officers states.

To support its contention, the panel points to the British and Israeli militaries, where it says gay people serve openly without hurting the effectiveness of combat operations.

Undermining unit cohesion was a determining factor when Congress passed the 1993 law, intended to keep the military from asking recruits their sexual orientation. In turn, service members can't say they are gay or bisexual, engage in homosexual activity or marry a member of the same sex.

Supporters of the ban contend there is still no empirical evidence that allowing gays to serve openly won't hurt combat effectiveness.

"The issue is trust and confidence" among members of a unit, said Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis, who retired in 1993 after working on the issue for the Army. When some people with a different sexual orientation are "in a close combat environment, it results in a lack of trust," he said.

The study was sponsored by the Michael D. Palm Center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, which said it picked the panel members to portray a bipartisan representation of the different service branches.

According to its Web site, the Palm Center "is committed to keeping researchers, journalists and the general public informed of the latest developments in the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy debate."

Two of the officers on the panel have endorsed Democratic candidates since leaving the military -- Army Lt. Gen. Robert Gard, who supports Barack Obama, and Marine Corps Gen. Hugh Aitken, who backed Clinton in 1996.

Air Force Lt. Gen. Robert Minter Alexander, a Republican, was assigned in 1993 to a high-level panel established by the Defense Department to examine the issue of gays in the military. At one point, he signed an order that prohibited the military from asking a recruit's sexual orientation.

Alexander said at the time he was simply trying to carry out the president's orders and not take a position. But he now believes the law should be repealed because it assumes the existence of gays in the military is disruptive to units even though cultural attitudes are changing.

Further, the Defense Department and not Congress should be in charge of regulating sexual misconduct within the military, he said.

"Who else can better judge whether it's a threat to good order and discipline?" Alexander asked.

Navy Vice Adm. Jack Shanahan said he had no opinion on the issue when he joined the panel, having never confronted it in his 35-year military career. A self-described Republican who opposes the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war, Shanahan said he was struck by the loss of personal integrity required by individuals to carry out "don't ask, don't tell."

"Everyone was living a big lie -- the homosexuals were trying to hide their sexual orientation and the commanders were looking the other way because they didn't want to disrupt operations by trying to enforce the law," he said

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/military.gays.ap/index.html

Oceanbreeze
07-08-2008, 10:31 AM
I am conservative military wife, but am pro-gay rights.
I'm skating on thin ice here, but I think the mindset of most military member would prefer the "don't ask, don't tell". That's just my 2 cents.

patriotsblade
07-08-2008, 10:33 AM
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa70/patriotsblade/armygays.jpg

Indigo
07-08-2008, 12:52 PM
:snicker

Cookie Parker
07-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Only the homophobic are afraid of gays in the military. What cracks me up, is it comes form the party with the most sexual charges for the solicitation or the illegal pursuit of minor gay sex.

BartonX
07-10-2008, 09:05 AM
Only the homophobic are afraid of gays in the military. What cracks me up, is it comes form the party with the most sexual charges for the solicitation or the illegal pursuit of minor gay sex.

Homophobic is an incorrect term, what you are refering to is "Reprobate Repulsed", which is a natural response to something so obviously wrong.

Also "Gay" means happy not disgusting homosexual behavioral disorder. Please study more before you insult our intelligence with your loose and incorrect verbage. :yep

Oceanbreeze
07-10-2008, 12:56 PM
Homophobic is an incorrect term, what you are refering to is "Reprobate Repulsed", which is a natural response to something so obviously wrong.

Also "Gay" means happy not disgusting homosexual behavioral disorder. Please study more before you insult our intelligence with your loose and incorrect verbage. :yep

:throw:nono:throw

Saguaro
07-10-2008, 01:11 PM
gay
4 entries found.

gay[1,adjective]gay[2,noun]GayGay-Lussac




Main Entry: 1gay
Pronunciation: \ˈgā\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French gai, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gāhi quick, sudden
Date: 14th century
1 a: happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b: keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2 a: bright, lively <gay sunny meadows> b: brilliant in color
3: given to social pleasures; also : licentious
4 a: homosexual <gay men> b: of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gay

POGO-SATAN
07-10-2008, 08:01 PM
An honest question for straight men.........

Would you mind taking a shower with gay men if you were in the military?

If the soap fell, would you pick it up ? :hulk

patriotsblade
07-10-2008, 08:16 PM
I was in the military for 8 years Pogo. I am not so naive to believe that every other soldier that I shared personal space with was straight. I never felt threatened or uncomfortable. I imagine those who do are perhaps a bit insecure in their own sexuality.

Saguaro
07-10-2008, 08:24 PM
:clap

Oceanbreeze
07-10-2008, 09:29 PM
I was in the military for 8 years Pogo. I am not so naive to believe that every other soldier that I shared personal space with was straight. I never felt threatened or uncomfortable. I imagine those who do are perhaps a bit insecure in their own sexuality.

You're making me spin again, want some meclizine?

POGO-SATAN
07-10-2008, 09:29 PM
I was in the military for 8 years Pogo. I am not so naive to believe that every other soldier that I shared personal space with was straight. I never felt threatened or uncomfortable. I imagine those who do are perhaps a bit insecure in their own sexuality.



Get back to me when you are ready to answer the question.

patriotsblade
07-10-2008, 10:38 PM
OK Pogo. I'll play along. No, I would not care at all. Why should I? Also, your question makes two irrational assumptions.

1. It automatically equates nudity with a sexual scenario.

2. It implies that homosexual men are inclined to attack other men in the shower.

Oceanbreeze
07-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Trust me, as a straight married woman, I'm not about to shower nude with anyone, except my husband. Human beings are very sexual creatures.I am pro-private nudist resorts, ect, because that line of respect is already drawn when you enter that scenerio. But, jumping nude into the shower with anyone, if they can't control their impulses, straight or gay, is only asking for trouble.