PDA

View Full Version : Down on the war


Kurtz
12-29-2006, 09:00 PM
Down on the war
Poll: More troops unhappy with Bush’s course in Iraq
Published:
Dec. 29, 2006
By Robert Hodierne
Senior managing editor

The American military — once a staunch supporter of President Bush and the Iraq war — has grown in creasingly pessimistic about chances for victory.

For the first time, more troops disapprove of the president’s han dling of the war than approve of it. Barely one-third of service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, ac cording to the 2006 Military Times Poll.

When the military was feeling most optimistic about the war — in 2004 — 83 percent of poll re spondents thought success in Iraq was likely. This year, that number has shrunk to 50 percent.

Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. The president’s approval rating among the military is only slight ly higher than for the population as a whole. In 2004, when his popularity peaked, 63 percent of the military approved of Bush’s handling of the war. While ap proval of the president’s war lead ership has slumped, his overall approval remains high among the military.

Just as telling, in this year’s poll only 41 percent of the military said the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place, down from 65 percent in 2003. That closely reflects the beliefs of the general population today — 45 percent agreed in a recent USA Today/Gallup poll.

Professor David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Mil itary Organization at the Univer sity of Maryland, was not sur prised by the changing attitude within the military.

“They’re seeing more casualties and fatalities and less progress,” Segal said.

He added, “Part of what we’re seeing is a recognition that the in telligence that led to the war was wrong.”

Whatever war plan the presi dent comes up with later this month, it likely will have the re placement of American troops with Iraqis as its ultimate goal. The military is not optimistic that will happen soon. Only about one in five service members said that large numbers of American troops can be replaced within the next two years. More than one-third think it will take more than five years. And more than half think the U.S. will have to stay in Iraq more than five years to achieve its goals.

Almost half of those responding think we need more troops in Iraq than we have there now. A surpris ing 13 percent said we should have no troops there. As for Afghanistan force levels, 39 per cent think we need more troops there. But while they want more troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, nearly three-quarters of the re spondents think today’s military is stretched too thin to be effective.

The mail survey, conducted Nov. 13 through Dec. 22, is the fourth annual gauge of active-duty mili tary subscribers to the Military Times newspapers. The results should not be read as representa tive of the military as a whole; the survey’s respondents are on aver age older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more ca reer-oriented than the overall mil itary population.

Among the respondents, 66 per cent have deployed at least once to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the overall active-duty force, according to the Department of Defense, that number is 72 percent.

The poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the pro fessional career military. It is the only independent poll done on an annual basis. The margin of error on this year’s poll is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

While approval of Bush’s han dling of the war has plunged, ap proval for his overall performance as president remains high at 52 percent. While that is down from his high of 71 percent in 2004, it is still far above the approval rat ings of the general population, where that number has fallen into the 30s.

While Bush fared well overall, his political party didn’t. In the three previous polls, nearly 60 percent of the respondents identi fied themselves as Republicans, which is about double the popula tion as a whole. But in this year’s poll, only 46 percent of the mili tary respondents said they were Republicans. However, there was not a big gain in those identifying themselves as Democrats — a fig ure that consistently hovers around 16 percent. The big gain came among people who said they were independents.

Similarly, when asked to de scribe their political views on a scale from very conservative to very liberal, there was a slight shift from the conservative end of the spectrum to the middle or moderate range. Liberals within the military are still a rare breed, with less than 10 percent of re spondents describing themselves that way.

Seeing media bias

Segal was not surprised that the military support for the war and the president’s handling of it had slumped. He said he believes that military opinion often mir rors that of the civilian popula tion, even though it might lag in time. He added, “[The military] will always be more pro-military and pro-war than the civilians. That’s why they are in this line of work.”

The poll asked, “How do you think each of these groups view the military?” Respondents over whelmingly said civilians have a favorable impression of the mili tary (86 percent). They even thought politicians look favorably on the military (57 percent). But they are convinced the media hate them — only 39 percent of mili tary respondents said they think the media have a favorable view of the troops.

The poll also asked if the senior military leadership, President Bush, civilian military leadership and Congress have their best in terests at heart.

Almost two-thirds (63 percent) of those surveyed said the senior military leadership has the best interests of the troops at heart. And though they don’t think much of the way he’s handling the war, 48 percent said the same about President Bush. But they take a dim view of civilian military lead ership — only 32 percent said they think it has their best inter ests at heart. And only 23 percent think Congress is looking out for them.

Despite concerns early in the war about equipment shortages, 58 percent said they believe they are supplied with the best possi ble weapons and equipment.

While President Bush always portrays the war in Iraq as part of the larger war on terrorism, many in the military are not convinced. The respondents were split evenly — 47 percent both ways — on whether the Iraq war is part of the war on terrorism. The rest had no opinion.

On many questions in the poll, some respondents said they didn’t have an opinion or declined to an swer. That number was typically in the 10 percent range.

But on questions about the president and on war strategy, that number reached 20 percent and higher. Segal said he was surprised the percentage refus ing to offer an opinion wasn’t larger.

“There is a strong strain in mili tary culture not to criticize the commander in chief,” he said.

One contentious area of military life in the past year has been the role religion should play. Some troops have complained that they feel pressure to attend religious services. Others have complained that chaplains and superior offi cers have tried to convert them. Half of the poll respondents said that at least once a month, they attend official military gather ings, other than meals and chapel services, that began with a prayer. But 80 percent said they feel free to practice and express their reli gion within the military.
http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php

Dano
12-29-2006, 09:10 PM
Robert Hodierne

This guy sure likes to gloat about his 'role' in bringing down Rumsfeld. He's been writing articles critical of the military since Vietnam.

Got anyone with less of an axe to grind?

TrueBlue
12-29-2006, 09:14 PM
http://www.hodierne.com/

Dano
12-29-2006, 09:40 PM
President George W. Bush, vilified by many, supported by some, is a hero to me.

Why do I say that? It's not because I agree with the president's domestic agenda. It's not because I think he's done a perfect job in the White House.

George Bush is a hero to me because he has courage.

The president does what he believes to be in the best interest of the United States. He sticks with his beliefs, no matter how intense the criticism and invective that are directed against him every day.

The enormous defeat President Bush suffered with the loss of both Houses of Congress has not caused him to retreat from his position that the U.S. alone now stands between a radical Islamic takeover of many of the world's governments in the next 30 or more years. If that takeover occurs, we will suffer an enslavement that will threaten our personal freedoms and take much of the world back into the Dark Ages.

Our major ally in this war against the forces of darkness, Great Britain, is still being led by an outstanding prime minister, Tony Blair. However, Blair will soon be set out to pasture, which means Great Britain will leave our side and join France, Germany, Spain, and other countries that foolishly believe they can tame the wolf at the door and convert it into a domestic pet that will live in peace with them.

These dreamers naively believe that if we feed the wolves what they demand, they will go away. But that won't happen.

Appeasement never works. The wolves always come back for more and more, and when we have nothing left to give, they come for us.

Before you follow the link and read more,, Take a guess at who the author is.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/27/124023.shtml?s=lh

TrueBlue
12-29-2006, 10:07 PM
It's very interesting, but is it supposed to be a rebuttal the OP?

Dano
12-29-2006, 10:13 PM
Just an opinion of someone with a bit more credability than the OP author.

Kurtz
12-29-2006, 10:25 PM
Let's address the credibility of the poll, not the author of the article:

The mail survey, conducted Nov. 13 through Dec. 22, is the fourth annual gauge of active-duty mili tary subscribers to the Military Times newspapers. The results should not be read as representa tive of the military as a whole; the survey’s respondents are on aver age older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more ca reer-oriented than the overall mil itary population.

Among the respondents, 66 per cent have deployed at least once to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the overall active-duty force, according to the Department of Defense, that number is 72 percent.

The poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the pro fessional career military. It is the only independent poll done on an annual basis.

Dano
12-29-2006, 10:54 PM
There are lots of interesting things in that survey. Looks like the OP author did a bit of cherry picking.
BTW,, That family of publications is known for a left leaning slant. Note that the survey was taken by subscribers.



5) In total, I have deployed in support of the war in Afghanistan and/or Iraq for:

Less than 2 months 3%
3-6 months 17%
7-12 months 25%
13-18 months 11%
19 or more months 9%
Haven't deployed/no response 34%

10) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation with Iraq?

Approve 35%
Disapprove 42%
No opinion 10%
Decline to answer 12%

(Might they disapprove of a perceived lack of will to piss off the liberals by really waging war as they were trained to do?)...

11) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?

Approve 52%
Disapprove 31%
No opinion 6%
Decline to answer 10%


13) We currently have 145,000 troops in Iraq and Kuwait. How many troops do you think we should have there?

Zero 13%
0-50,000 7%
50,000-144,000 6%
145,000 13%
146,000-200,000 22%
200,000+ 16%
No opinion/Don't know 23%

Kurtz
12-29-2006, 11:03 PM
the survey’s respondents are on aver age older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more ca reer-oriented than the overall mil itary population.

Among the respondents, 66 per cent have deployed at least once to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the overall active-duty force, according to the Department of Defense, that number is 72 percent.

The poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the pro fessional career military. It is the only independent poll done on an annual basis.

Dano
12-29-2006, 11:09 PM
And,, it is owned by Gannett Publications.

Many of the bloggers state that they only read the magazines for the advertisers and career advice articles.
It is a left wing publication, in their opinion.

Kurtz
12-29-2006, 11:16 PM
And,, it is owned by Gannett Publications.

Many of the bloggers state that they only read the magazines for the advertisers and career advice articles.
It is a left wing publication, in their opinion.
:rofl now that is pertinent

sparks
12-29-2006, 11:19 PM
I kinda like Gannet publications myself!

TrueBlue
12-30-2006, 08:32 AM
There are lots of interesting things in that survey. Looks like the OP author did a bit of cherry picking.
BTW,, That family of publications is known for a left leaning slant. Note that the survey was taken by subscribers.



5) In total, I have deployed in support of the war in Afghanistan and/or Iraq for:

Less than 2 months 3%
3-6 months 17%
7-12 months 25%
13-18 months 11%
19 or more months 9%
Haven't deployed/no response 34%

10) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation with Iraq?

Approve 35%
Disapprove 42%
No opinion 10%
Decline to answer 12%

(Might they disapprove of a perceived lack of will to piss off the liberals by really waging war as they were trained to do?)...

11) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?

Approve 52%
Disapprove 31%
No opinion 6%
Decline to answer 10%


13) We currently have 145,000 troops in Iraq and Kuwait. How many troops do you think we should have there?

Zero 13%
0-50,000 7%
50,000-144,000 6%
145,000 13%
146,000-200,000 22%
200,000+ 16%
No opinion/Don't know 23%

It is difficult to calculate the responses of nonresponders. :wink

To have a third of those solicited for opinion not respond is pretty typical.

And,, it is owned by Gannett Publications.

Many of the bloggers state that they only read the magazines for the advertisers and career advice articles.
It is a left wing publication, in their opinion.

So what? :think

Wabash
12-30-2006, 02:01 PM
Yes, and it makes this poll, like most, a bunch of bullshit! Good try once again Kurtz to bash your President and bash your country. Go kiss some terrorist ass or something!:hater :hater :pissed

Wabash
12-30-2006, 02:01 PM
I kinda like Gannet publications myself!

Who gives a shit?

TrueBlue
12-30-2006, 02:01 PM
Yes, and it makes this poll, like most, a bunch of bullshit! Good try once again Kurtz to bash your President and bash your country. Go kiss some terrorist ass or something!:hater :hater :pissed

Now how did this bash the country?

Kurtz
12-30-2006, 02:03 PM
Yes, and it makes this poll, like most, a bunch of bullshit! Good try once again Kurtz to bash your President and bash your country. Go kiss some terrorist ass or something!:hater :hater :pissed
Bend over :rofl

TrueBlue
12-30-2006, 02:09 PM
Why do Republicans believe that bashing a member of the Republican party is attacking the nation?

Kurtz
12-30-2006, 02:16 PM
Why do Republicans believe that bashing a member of the Republican party is attacking the nation?
Because they are believers and not thinkers? :confused

Wabash
12-30-2006, 02:41 PM
Now how did this bash the country?

By posting negative info by a left leaning publication to garner support for your previous bashings....

Wabash
12-30-2006, 02:42 PM
Bend over :rofl

:pics

Wabash
12-30-2006, 02:43 PM
Because they are believers and not thinkers? :confused

Right...you have a monopoly on thought ..Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Wabash
12-30-2006, 02:46 PM
Anti Bush are ya? Try this...
http://forums.military.com/eve/forum...0051401001/p/5

Kurtz
12-30-2006, 02:51 PM
By posting negative info by a left leaning publication to garner support for your previous bashings....

That negative info was:
The mail survey, conducted Nov. 13 through Dec. 22, is the fourth annual gauge of active-duty mili tary subscribers to the Military Times newspapers. The results should not be read as representa tive of the military as a whole; the survey’s respondents are on aver age older, more experienced, more likely to be officers and more ca reer-oriented than the overall mil itary population.

Among the respondents, 66 per cent have deployed at least once to Iraq or Afghanistan. In the overall active-duty force, according to the Department of Defense, that number is 72 percent.

The poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the pro fessional career military. It is the only independent poll done on an annual basis.

Kurtz
12-30-2006, 02:54 PM
Anti Bush are ya? Try this...
http://forums.military.com/eve/forum...0051401001/p/5

Ya think I'm gonna tell ya my screen name there? I'm not! :rofl

TrueBlue
12-30-2006, 06:09 PM
By posting negative info by a left leaning publication to garner support for your previous bashings....

Wabash, are you just typing words now? That is a senseless sentence.