Harold Ickes

[AYFR]

"There's no basis in ... any reasonable way, there's no basis for taking any delegates from her. Yesterday's resolution took four delegates from her," Ickes said. "It violates a fundamental precept of our delegate selection rule, which is fair reflection."
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/06/01/ickes_rules_resolution_took_clinton_votes/1527/

[Saguaro]

He very easily forgot that Obama wasn't on the ticket in Michigan, so no one could vote for him. That is NOT what I call fair

[AYFR]

Who's fault was that??

[Trueblue]

Who's fault was that??

Michigan's.

[AYFR]

So because the PEOPLE wanted to vote earlier they get penalized.

[Saguaro]

It's their fault when they voted those who decide into office to the Mich DNC

[AYFR]

The people they voted for represent the people of the state.
Obama should have had the forsight to get his name on the ballot.
It shows poor planning that he did not. You always try to plan for the unexpected.
He had nothing to lose and lots to gain.
Did anyone really think they would not seat those delegates?

[Saguaro]

Ok Rev, let me explain this. Mich was being punished because they held their primary too early,therefore they were penalized. Obama, Richardson, and Edwards withdrew their names because of this punishment. They played by the rules of the US DNC,Hillary kept her name on the ballot along with Dodd and Gravel.There wasn't a way for Obama supporters to vote for him

[Trueblue]

I know that the Florida Republican primary had the same sanctions. What about Michigan?

[AYFR]

Ok Rev, let me explain this. Mich was being punished because they held their primary too early,therefore they were penalized. Obama, Richardson, and Edwards withdrew their names because of this punishment. They played by the rules of the US DNC,Hillary kept her name on the ballot along with Dodd and Gravel.There wasn't a way for Obama supporters to vote for him

So you are telling me that the party overrules the will of the people.

So much for "for the people by the people"

[Trueblue]

So you are telling me that the party overrules the will of the people.

So much for "for the people by the people"

I'm telling you that the Publicans have the same sort of rules.

At the discussion on Saturday, it was asked if the Clinton supporters thought that there should be some order to the process. The Clinton supporter agreed that there must be order.

[AYFR]

I'm telling you that the Publicans have the same sort of rules.

At the discussion on Saturday, it was asked if the Clinton supporters thought that there should be some order to the process. The Clinton supporter agreed that there must be order.
The Reps did not refuse to count the delegates from there.
Also more then just McCain was on the ticket as well.
Not to mention that the person that won the popular vote got the delegates.
NONE were given to the others just because.

Point is Obama was NOT on the ticket and therefore should NOT get the delegates.

[Saguaro]

:sag .. Rev how can you vote for someone when there is no way to vote for them ?

[AYFR]

Obama could and should have let his name be on the ticket. It would have hurt nothing.
Now it is likely to piss off Hillary supporters and send them to McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

[Trueblue]

On 8 November 2007, the RNC made a determination that Florida's Tuesday 29 January 2008 caucuses violate Republican Party Rule Number 16. The rule states that the process of selecting National Convention Delegates must not begin before Tuesday 5 February 2008. Florida is sanctioned 50% of their delegation hence, the number of delegates is decreased from 114 to 57. The eliminated positions include the 3 automatic delegates (State Chair, National Committeewoman and National Committeeman).

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/FL-R.phtml

Hillary said before the Michigan primary that it did not count. She could have not said that and she'd look better now, wouldn't she?

[Trueblue]

Both parties cut their delegations from Florida in half, correct?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/31/the-dnc-deliberates/

[Trueblue]

The Reps did not refuse to count the delegates from there.
Also more then just McCain was on the ticket as well.
Not to mention that the person that won the popular vote got the delegates.
NONE were given to the others just because.

Point is Obama was NOT on the ticket and therefore should NOT get the delegates.

Please specify what you mean, I can't tell where is there, who the person is, and what you mean by just because.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Ickes is a lawyer and was making the best possible case for his client. The :rev missed the real issue here in that Ickes was objecting to the disregard of the Michigan primary results in that this makes it harder for the Clinton campaign to make the popular vote argument. The DNC has officially declared that the results of the Michigan primary to be invalid because such primary was too flawed and impose an allocation of delegates that was not based on such primary. This is an official repudiation of the results of the Michigan primary and casts doubts on the Clinton campaign popular vote argument.

[Yellowdogtexan]

BTW, I found these comments from yesterday to be interesting. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/02/clinton-summons-top-donor_n_104715.html Clinton strategist Harold Ickes spoke in very conciliatory terms about Obama, in contrast to his tougher rhetoric in public and on television, according to sources. He told the participants that Clinton wants to "significantly" help Obama, but he did not go so far as saying that she will announce withdrawal -- that is the prerogative of the candidate.

Ickes told the group to "take a deep breath" and let Clinton proceed in her own fashion.

[Trueblue]

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESr9D5Gd7A