Pick Your Poison, Folks.

[Lone Laugher]

I wonder if our resident "conservative" posters who have rejoiced of late at the rough time that Barack Obama is having ( see sig lines ) are aware that the result is a strengthened and revitalized Clinton campaign.

Ohhhhhh how quickly we forget....Hillary was arch enemy #1 a while ago. Could that be because she was so bad for the US OR because she was the Democratic front runner? It appears that it was the latter. Ever since she was passed over by Obama, the "fair and balanced" on here let her be and turned teeth on the Senator from Illinois.

Here's the best part. Whereas only Obama used to poll as a winner against McCain....now BOTH Obama and Clinton do. So...the fickle nature of the ULTRA-PARTISAN core of the Republican party may have unwittingly helped Hillary Clinton get closer to the Oval Office.

Since McCain stands little chance against either of the Democratic candidates in November....the Republican die-hards can only effect the race by "picking their poison".

Ain't life grand!

[Wabash]

We want hillary to get the nomination, she will be easier for McCain to beat. Doesn't mean we like her any better......the DNC is in Chaos and getting worse...

Although...................with obie's fall from grace the last few days...it may be real easy for hillary to punch him out....and THAT is a Good thing.

[BartonX]

I wonder when they will ship Obama and Wright to Gitmo and waterboard them like all the other terrorists? Liberation Theology is what they all have in common. :) Oops, how sexist of me, can't leave Michelle Obama out of the mix.........her too!

[AYFR]

HillBama will not win.

[Lone Laugher]

Wabby......can you taste that bullshit as it flows past your lips?

[cassandra]

I love how you entitled this thread picking poison . . . I feel exactly the same about either Dem candidate.

I just pray McCain will defeat no matter the opponent.

[Lone Laugher]

Its the economy, stupid.

[Trueblue]

I love how you entitled this thread picking poison . . . I feel exactly the same about either Dem candidate.

I just pray McCain will defeat no matter the opponent.

You know, I started to say that I pray just the opposite, and then I remembered that when I think seriously about this issue, I can't believe that God fixes elections.

The idea that we would be better off with Mc:cane is completely beyond me. I thought that Bush couldn't be too bad because of our system of government. I was sure wrong about that.

Bush started this damn war that has killed our people and depleted our resources and has left the Iraqis in a state of chaos.

Bush has said and acted as if the USC was a piece of paper. He's spied on citizens without a warrant. You know that if he bypassed the rubber stamp of the FISA court that he has been committing impeachable offenses.

We have a bad economic situation, this is no joke, I have seen many bumps and falls in my lifetime and this has me quite worried-and Bush says that it will all be just fine, and nobody deserves any help except Wall Street.

Mc:cane came right out and said that he thinks we need more wars and that he has little hope for American jobs. You might think that more and more wars are okay right now, wait till your kids get the age to fight in them.

In closing, let me just say that I think you pray for some strange things.

[nixon]

You know, I started to say that I pray just the opposite, and then I remembered that when I think seriously about this issue, I can't believe that God fixes elections.

The idea that we would be better off with Mc:cane is completely beyond me. I thought that Bush couldn't be too bad because of our system of government. I was sure wrong about that.

Bush started this damn war that has killed our people and depleted our resources and has left the Iraqis in a state of chaos.

Bush has said and acted as if the USC was a piece of paper. He's spied on citizens without a warrant. You know that if he bypassed the rubber stamp of the FISA court that he has been committing impeachable offenses.

We have a bad economic situation, this is no joke, I have seen many bumps and falls in my lifetime and this has me quite worried-and Bush says that it will all be just fine, and nobody deserves any help except Wall Street.

Mc:cane came right out and said that he thinks we need more wars and that he has little hope for American jobs. You might think that more and more wars are okay right now, wait till your kids get the age to fight in them.

In closing, let me just say that I think you pray for some strange things.What I find ironic is Jesus Christ's message of love and nonviolence gets lost in the party that leans so hard on Him. One word gives an excellent definition; Hypocrisy. Speaking the truth, Nixon.

[AYFR]

We are told to pray for everything, Pray continuosly non-stop.
Before any action we need to pray.
There is no strange things to pray for.

McReagan will be a great president.

[AYFR]

What I find ironic is Jesus Christ's message of love and nonviolence gets lost in the party that leans so hard on Him. One word gives an excellent definition; Hypocrisy. Speaking the truth, Nixon.
The idea that Jesus was a pacifist is wrong.

While Jesus is the “prince of peace” (Isaiah 9:6), He was not, and is not, a pacifist. Revelation 19:15, speaking of Jesus, declares, "Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty." Ecclesiastes 3:1, 3, & 8 say, “There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heaven…a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” Daniel 9:26 says that “war will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.” Matthew 24:6-8 says, “You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.”

Jesus Himself said, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law---a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household’” (Matthew 10:34-36). “From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it” (Matthew 11:12).

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pacifist.html

[Lone Laugher]

That is fucked up.

[nixon]

We are told to pray for everything, Pray continuosly non-stop.
Before any action we need to pray.
There is no strange things to pray for.

McReagan will be a great president.Tell me Rev, what sort of Christian are you? What denomination?

[AYFR]

That is fucked up.
Sorry you see it that way. But it is the truth
Tell me Rev, what sort of Christian are you? What denomination?

I am non-denominational.

I belong to the Church of God out of Anderson , Indiana
http://www.chog.org/

I am the kind of Christian that follows Jesus.

[nixon]

Sorry you see it that way. But it is the truth


I am non-denominational.

I belong to the Church of God out of Anderson , Indiana
http://www.chog.org/

I am the kind of Christian that follows Jesus.Amen.

[AYFR]

I will add that no matter what church I go to if they teach something that differs from the Bible or contridicts it I will leave that church and find another.

[Saguaro]

Which interpretation of the Bible ?

[AYFR]

Which interpretation of the Bible ?

Doesn't matter, they ALL say the same thing. Just use different wording.

[AYFR]

Which interpretation of the Bible ?

BTW they are not different interpretations they are different translations.

[Capitalist]

Could that be because she was so bad for the US OR because she was the Democratic front runner?


Is there a difference?

[Capitalist]

Its the economy, stupid.

My economy is just fine thank you.

[Capitalist]

What I find ironic is Jesus Christ's message of love and nonviolence gets lost in the party that leans so hard on Him. One word gives an excellent definition; Hypocrisy. Speaking the truth, Nixon.

Go F off, I am an agnostic I don't lean on fairy tales.

[cassandra]

You know, I started to say that I pray just the opposite, and then I remembered that when I think seriously about this issue, I can't believe that God fixes elections.

The idea that we would be better off with Mc:cane is completely beyond me. I thought that Bush couldn't be too bad because of our system of government. I was sure wrong about that.

Bush started this damn war that has killed our people and depleted our resources and has left the Iraqis in a state of chaos.

Bush has said and acted as if the USC was a piece of paper. He's spied on citizens without a warrant. You know that if he bypassed the rubber stamp of the FISA court that he has been committing impeachable offenses.

We have a bad economic situation, this is no joke, I have seen many bumps and falls in my lifetime and this has me quite worried-and Bush says that it will all be just fine, and nobody deserves any help except Wall Street.

Mc:cane came right out and said that he thinks we need more wars and that he has little hope for American jobs. You might think that more and more wars are okay right now, wait till your kids get the age to fight in them.

In closing, let me just say that I think you pray for some strange things.

We all pray for different things. I pray for decision to make in my life, absolutely!

You are completely ridiculous if you don't think that wars ensure freedom. I want my family to be safe, when my children fight in a war to ensure that same freedom I will commend them and I will again pray!

[nixon]

Go F off, I am an agnostic I don't lean on fairy tales. One day we will meet and you won't be so quick to say F off, old man. It's easy to run your cocksucker on the internet. Nixon.

[Lone Laugher]

My economy is just fine thank you.

And...I suspect that sums up the limits of your concern.

[Trueblue]

We are told to pray for everything, Pray continuosly non-stop.
Before any action we need to pray.
There is no strange things to pray for.

McReagan will be a great president.

You know better than to say that there are no strange things to pray for. That is simply false.

The idea that Jesus was a pacifist is wrong.


http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pacifist.html

The idea that the passage you cite refers to q military type conflict is wrong.

This is pacifism:

Matthew 5:39 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I will add that no matter what church I go to if they teach something that differs from the Bible or contridicts it I will leave that church and find another.

You must be busy.

We all pray for different things. I pray for decision to make in my life, absolutely!

You are completely ridiculous if you don't think that wars ensure freedom. I want my family to be safe, when my children fight in a war to ensure that same freedom I will commend them and I will again pray!

You weren't talking about praying about your decision, but about requesting God have your politics.

Sometimes wars are for freedom, at other times they ensure enslavement. This war has not made us more free. If you want more wars, then McSame is your candidate.

You cannot possibly believe that every war, in any circumstance, is right and for freedom.

I repeat, wait till your kids get old enough to fight in them.

[AYFR]

You know better than to say that there are no strange things to pray for. That is simply false.
What is strange in your eyes may not be in anothers or God's.



The idea that the passage you cite refers to q military type conflict is wrong.

This is pacifism:

Matthew 5:39 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Jesus is not a pacifist. That verse you quote is about revenge; not about pacifism.
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[b] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
The verse in context.

You must be busy.
Not really, my current Pastor and Church follow the Bible.

You have a real cynical view of Christianity and Church for a Christian.

[cassandra]

I love how you entitled this thread picking poison . . . I feel exactly the same about either Dem candidate.

I just pray McCain will defeat no matter the opponent.


We all pray for different things. I pray for decision to make in my life, absolutely!

You are completely ridiculous if you don't think that wars ensure freedom. I want my family to be safe, when my children fight in a war to ensure that same freedom I will commend them and I will again pray!




You weren't talking about praying about your decision, but about requesting God have your politics.

Sometimes wars are for freedom, at other times they ensure enslavement. This war has not made us more free. If you want more wars, then McSame is your candidate.

You cannot possibly believe that every war, in any circumstance, is right and for freedom.

I repeat, wait till your kids get old enough to fight in them.

I have made my decision and I do pray that McCain wins. I prayed over the decision and now I pray that it comes to fruition. Prayers are not always answered but they are heard.

I believe that he is the best candidate running. I believe that he is far better than the others and will keep many freedoms I love, like healthcare choices and so much more.

You can't believe that no wars ensure freedom and you would be ridiculous to believe that this war gave nothing to your freedoms.

When my babies are old enough to fight in wars I will not hide behind my fears. I cannot stand the thought of losing them but know that this may be there choice. I will not change my ideas once it is my children. All children of the world are mine in a manner of speaking. I care for each of them and would not want them to be hurt.

[Lone Laugher]

Cassandra....you seem like a nice person and I believe you when you say that you don't want anyone's children to be hurt. The rest of what you just wrote is way off base though.

You think we currently have health care choices? And you think McCain will preserve them?

You abviously have no idea what it is like to pay premiums for health insurance and then have care denied when you need it because of some barely related pre-existing condition. That leaves NO choice but to suffer.

Choices? Are you pro-choice?

Do wars ensure freedom? Maybe...but NOT this occupation...not for anyone.

Nice person....but you need to get some more information.

[cassandra]

Cassandra....you seem like a nice person and I believe you when you say that you don't want anyone's children to be hurt. The rest of what you just wrote is way off base though.

You think we currently have health care choices? And you think McCain will preserve them?

You abviously have no idea what it is like to pay premiums for health insurance and then have care denied when you need it because of some barely related pre-existing condition. That leaves NO choice but to suffer.

Choices? Are you pro-choice?

Do wars ensure freedom? Maybe...but NOT this occupation...not for anyone.

Nice person....but you need to get some more information.

Unfortunately you don't know much about me. I have had plenty denied on my insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I do pay premiums that don't ensure everything I wished they would.

I do however see socialized healthcare as one of the worst things that can happen to our country. It won't improve anything. If it does why don't you tell me why tons of Canadians flood the US to get care. Here is a perfect example. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300939,00.html If I had more time or thought you would listen I could find tons more articles like this.

I am not pro-choice as my beliefs about freedoms and children cover the unborn. I am pretty sure you already knew that though.

[Lone Laugher]

First of all....Universal health care is NOT socialized healthcare. We'll still pay.....but we won't get ripped off and we won't get denied coverage.

Don't give me Fox News...please.

I have lived in a country with single payer health care...it was GREAT. My wife gave birth to three children there...and was treated like a spa customer for a week each time. You have no idea of what you speak.

The system we have now DENIES people health care. You think that is OK. Is there anything else to say?

[Trueblue]

What is strange in your eyes may not be in anothers or God's.

O-kay.

Jesus is not a pacifist. That verse you quote is about revenge; not about pacifism.

It's about both. There are other examples of pacifism, too, and there is no place that Jesus advocates war or violence.

The verse in context.

Yep.

Not really, my current Pastor and Church follow the Bible.

You have a real cynical view of Christianity and Church for a Christian.

Some churches, yes, Christianity, no.

You have this idea that all Bibles are the same and that the only way to understand scripture is your way.

I have made my decision and I do pray that McCain wins. I prayed over the decision and now I pray that it comes to fruition. Prayers are not always answered but they are heard.

I believe that he is the best candidate running. I believe that he is far better than the others and will keep many freedoms I love, like healthcare choices and so much more.

You can't believe that no wars ensure freedom and you would be ridiculous to believe that this war gave nothing to your freedoms.

When my babies are old enough to fight in wars I will not hide behind my fears. I cannot stand the thought of losing them but know that this may be there choice. I will not change my ideas once it is my children. All children of the world are mine in a manner of speaking. I care for each of them and would not want them to be hurt.

Cassandra, you can't sit there and tell me that this war added to my freedoms, it is sheer nonsense.

I care about all kids myself, and that's why having them lied into a war bothers me.

McCain promises more wars and less jobs. What a platform.

Publicans always think God is on their side alone. :lol As if.

[cassandra]

HEALTHCARE is NOT a RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

I think that about sums up how I feel about it.

[Trueblue]

Evolving standards of decency is a concept to consider here.

I think in this day and age, it is a right, and it is an asset to the nation, to have universal access to healthcare.

[AYFR]

The system we have now DENIES people health care. You think that is OK. Is there anything else to say?
False it is ILLEGAL to deny anyone emergency care.


It's about both. There are other examples of pacifism, too, and there is no place that Jesus advocates war or violence.
Pacifism is when a person will not use any kind of violence for any situation period. That was not Jesus. Just because he did not advocate it does not mean he ws against it when the time for it is needed.



You have this idea that all Bibles are the same and that the only way to understand scripture is your way. All Bibles are the same. They say the same thing, just use different words to say it.
MY understanding of the Bible does not contridict it. I am sorry if you disagree but there is only one right way to understand the Bible and that is God's way through the Holy Spirit.

[Trueblue]

Only one way, your way. Got it. Thanks.

[AYFR]

Evolving standards of decency is a concept to consider here.

I think in this day and age, it is a right, and it is an asset to the nation, to have universal access to healthcare.

And everyone DOES have access to it.
It is NOT a constitutional right nor is it the duty of the government to use mine and your taxes to pay for it.

[AYFR]

Only one way, your way. Got it. Thanks.

No God's way. I never said I was always correct. I pray and meditate about everything I study in the Bible. I listen the the Spirit and let it guide me and so far what I have said does not contridict the Bible in anyway.


So you believe that there is more then one right way to understand the Bible?

[Lone Laugher]

Unbelievable!

The Christian conservatives on here have their panties in such a wad about abortion and homosexuals that they would gladly say something like "health care is not a right!" and say that they have no responsibility to care for others who are ill and in need. Your priorities are not in order. They'll vote for McCain because they think he'll stop gay marriage, kill more Muslims and maybe nominate a judge who does not think abortion should be a woman's choice. It is fucked up.

It is so fucking hypocritical...I am speechless.

[AYFR]

Unbelievable!

The Christian conservatives on here have their panties in such a wad about some abortion and homosexuals that they would gladly say something like "health care is not a right!" and say that they have no responsibility to care for others who are ill and in need. Your priorities are not in order.

It is so fucking hypocritical...I am speechless.

It has nothing to do with Homosexuals or abortions.
It is not a responsibility when it is forced from you.
My priorities are just fine thank you very much. There are places people can go to get care.

There are community hospitals that HAVE to take patients. They recieve funds from taxes to pay for it. JPS here in Fort Worth is that way.

I also have a preexisting condition and for me to get covered I had to join the insurance but had to wait a full year before they would cover that condition. Makes it very dangerous to drive and such without my seizure medication. I went through a community hospital to get the care I needed.


Point is there are places to get care if you can't afford it.

[cassandra]

And everyone DOES have access to it.
It is NOT a constitutional right nor is it the duty of the government to use mine and your taxes to pay for it.

Absolutely not the governments issue whether or not you can afford it.

Evolving standards of decency is a concept to consider here.

I think in this day and age, it is a right, and it is an asset to the nation, to have universal access to healthcare.

I could not disagree more with either of these statements. It doesn't make me any less decent to expect people to take care of themselves.

It is an assest to the nation to have people who work hard for the good things in life.

Unbelievable!

The Christian conservatives on here have their panties in such a wad about abortion and homosexuals that they would gladly say something like "health care is not a right!" and say that they have no responsibility to care for others who are ill and in need. Your priorities are not in order. They'll vote for McCain because they think he'll stop gay marriage, kill more Muslims and maybe nominate a judge who does not think abortion should be a woman's choice. It is fucked up.

It is so fucking hypocritical...I am speechless.

This has nothing to do with abortion or homosexuals for me. I have no problem with either. I accept that abortions are legal. I don't care whether or not gays marry. And I have no issue with Muslims or any other race of people.

[Saguaro]

It has nothing to do with Homosexuals or abortions.
It is not a responsibility when it is forced from you.
My priorities are just fine thank you very much. There are places people can go to get care.

There are community hospitals that HAVE to take patients. They recieve funds from taxes to pay for it. JPS here in Fort Worth is that way.

I also have a preexisting condition and for me to get covered I had to join the insurance but had to wait a full year before they would cover that condition. Makes it very dangerous to drive and such without my seizure medication. I went through a community hospital to get the care I needed.


Point is there are places to get care if you can't afford it.


You don't realize it, but everyone pays for the people who can't afford medical care

[AYFR]

Point is they still can get medical care. I know some of my taxes pay for it. Universal health care is not a right and will not work.

[Lone Laugher]

You are talking out of your ass. I have seen it work. It works great.

[cassandra]

You are talking out of your ass. I have seen it work. It works great.

Please explain this to me. If you love it so much why aren't you living there? I have heard so many people like you tout the wonderful things of these other countries and I often wonder why you came back to the US.

I have a friend who recently moved back to the US from Sweden and I am amazed at her disdain for America.

[Saguaro]

Point is they still can get medical care. I know some of my taxes pay for it. Universal health care is not a right and will not work.

Not only do you pay with taxes, your insurance premiums are high because of it,so in essence you are already supporting it and don't know it.

[Trueblue]

Cassandra, that was a statement about society, I know that you are decent.

And everyone DOES have access to it.
It is NOT a constitutional right nor is it the duty of the government to use mine and your taxes to pay for it.

Wrong! Everyone does NOT have access to health care. The emergency room provides very limited services.

No God's way. I never said I was always correct. I pray and meditate about everything I study in the Bible. I listen the the Spirit and let it guide me and so far what I have said does not contridict the Bible in anyway.


So you believe that there is more then one right way to understand the Bible?

And God's way and your way are the same.

I have worked at this, too, and have come to different conclusions.

You tell me, is there more than one correct way to understand the Bible?

It has nothing to do with Homosexuals or abortions.
It is not a responsibility when it is forced from you.
My priorities are just fine thank you very much. There are places people can go to get care.

There are community hospitals that HAVE to take patients. They recieve funds from taxes to pay for it. JPS here in Fort Worth is that way.

I also have a preexisting condition and for me to get covered I had to join the insurance but had to wait a full year before they would cover that condition. Makes it very dangerous to drive and such without my seizure medication. I went through a community hospital to get the care I needed.


Point is there are places to get care if you can't afford it.

No, there are not always places to get what you need.

Point is they still can get medical care. I know some of my taxes pay for it. Universal health care is not a right and will not work.

It works in other countries.

Please explain this to me. If you love it so much why aren't you living there? I have heard so many people like you tout the wonderful things of these other countries and I often wonder why you came back to the US.

I have a friend who recently moved back to the US from Sweden and I am amazed at her disdain for America.

And you complain about socialist policies here, so why don't you leave?

[Lone Laugher]

Please explain this to me. If you love it so much why aren't you living there? I have heard so many people like you tout the wonderful things of these other countries and I often wonder why you came back to the US.

I have a friend who recently moved back to the US from Sweden and I am amazed at her disdain for America.

That is a ridiculous question. I am American. I love it here too. My wife happens to be Japanese, but we decided to live here. Can't we try to make improvements?

The Japanese health care system is incredible. The taxes are high compared to ours...but the people get something meaningful for their tax money.

Everyone pays in according to income level....everyone gets the benefit according to need.

You need to get out more. You are a bit sheltered, I think.

[AYFR]

Not only do you pay with taxes, your insurance premiums are high because of it,so in essence you are already supporting it and don't know it.

No my rates are high because of lawsuits and legislation.

[Trueblue]

No my rates are high because of lawsuits and legislation.

Punitive damages are not the bulk of the cost.

[Trueblue]

A huge amount of the reason for the high cost is improving services.

[Lone Laugher]

A huge amount of the cost is profit for the insurance companies and the providers of health care.

[AYFR]

Wrong! Everyone does NOT have access to health care. The emergency room provides very limited services.
Yes they do, they are called community hospitals.


And God's way and your way are the same.

I have worked at this, too, and have come to different conclusions.

You tell me, is there more than one correct way to understand the Bible?
Asked you first.

At the end we will know who is right and who isn't

There is one right way to understand the Bible, that is though the Holy Spirit. Everyone that does that will reach the SAME conclusion.


No, there are not always places to get what you need. Yes there are, community hospitals



It works in other countries.
[/QUOTE]
Which is why they come here for healthcare??




http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3057

[Trueblue]

Yes they do, they are called community hospitals.

No they don't, because we don't have those everywhere.



Asked you first.

Oh, come on. Just answer the question, you already know what I think.

At the end we will know who is right and who isn't

There is one right way to understand the Bible, that is though the Holy Spirit. Everyone that does that will reach the SAME conclusion.

You can't be serious.

[Trueblue]

PS, Americans also go to Canada for drugs.

[AYFR]

No they don't, because we don't have those everywhere.





Oh, come on. Just answer the question, you already know what I think.



You can't be serious.

Very serious. The Holy Spirit will lead to the same understanding of the Bible.

[AYFR]

PS, Americans also go to Canada for drugs.
Never said our system was perfect.

[AYFR]

BTW I did answer the question.

[cassandra]

And you complain about socialist policies here, so why don't you leave?

Well, as of right now they are not too far encroached on my life. I don't smoke so even though that liberty is taken from people I don't suffer.

That is a ridiculous question. I am American. I love it here too. My wife happens to be Japanese, but we decided to live here. Can't we try to make improvements?

The Japanese health care system is incredible. The taxes are high compared to ours...but the people get something meaningful for their tax money.

Everyone pays in according to income level....everyone gets the benefit according to need.

You need to get out more. You are a bit sheltered, I think.

The part you bolded is the part that I cannot agree with. It is horrible to think that I pay not for what I need but for what I can afford.

I have made my way in this great country and I am a successful woman with a good amount of wealth. I came from a very low income family to be where I am today. It is horrible to think of an America where the rich are taxed higher so that the poor can enjoy the same luxuries as them.

I am not sure why you think me sheltered but that is your opinion. There are plenty of things in life I am but sheltered is not one.

[Trueblue]

Very serious. The Holy Spirit will lead to the same understanding of the Bible.

I'm sorry, that is just not humanly possible. No two people agree completely on the Bible. How do you think we ended up with so many denominations?

Never said our system was perfect.

Okay. :roll You did say that people came here for care, I was just pointing out the other side.

[AYFR]

Everyone pays in according to income level....everyone gets the benefit according to need.


Karl Marx

[Trueblue]

Karl Marx

St. Paul

[AYFR]

St. Paul

Wrong Paul said we should WILLINGLY give not be FORCED to give like Marx did. Good try but no banana.

It should be becuase we want to not because we have to.

[Trueblue]

Wrong Paul said we should WILLINGLY give not be FORCED to give like Marx did. Good try but no banana.

It should be becuase we want to not because we have to.

Paul didn't say either way, he just said what the disciples were doing. If you're gonna bring up Marx, I'm bringing up Paul.

[AYFR]

Well you are misrepresenting him, like usual.
The whole bible is about free will.

I am done here before I say something I'll regret.

[Trueblue]

Well you are misrepresenting him, like usual.
The whole bible is about free will.

I am done here before I say something I'll regret.

You should already be feeling regret over this post.

You aren't the only person with a view of the Bible. And don't come back and say you never said that, because that's exactly what you're saying.

[AYFR]

I do not regret that post.

And I NEVER did say I was the only person with a view of the Bible. I said YOU were wrong.

[Lone Laugher]

Karl Marx

You need to read more. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Trueblue]

I do not regret that post.

And I NEVER did say I was the only person with a view of the Bible. I said YOU were wrong.

Pffft.

[AYFR]

Everyone pays in according to income level....everyone gets the benefit according to need.
.

You need to read more. You have no idea what you are talking about.

From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.
Karl Marx

Nope read it right.

Karl Marx Maybe you need to reread it. Looks like you missed it the first time.

[Lone Laugher]

Uh...Rev....the subject matter was a bit different. Really. The fact that what I said comes close to a famous quote from Marx does not mean that I have suggested a Marxist approach to the issue.

Just for your sake, if you read an entire treatise ( or sermon, or speech ) you get a different opinion of what was written. You cannot go through life leaping from soundbite to soundbite and claim that you have educated yourself. Admit that you have never read
any Marx...and that you do not even know when the referenced quote was written.

I am quite certain ( having experienced it ) that health care can be something that everyone gets without instituting Marxist principles.

[cassandra]

Uh...Rev....the subject matter was a bit different. Really. The fact that what I said comes close to a famous quote from Marx does not mean that I have suggested a Marxist approach to the issue.

I am quite certain ( having experienced it ) that health care can be something that everyone gets without instituting Marxist principles.

Maybe you could explain how you suggest this could happen and how it is not Marxism. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialismHere (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism) is the definition of socialism in case you have forgotten it. :wink

You, as near as I can asertain, suggesting taking something from those who can afford it and giving it to those who cannot.

[Lone Laugher]

Not even close. You are blinded by your partisan politics....and cannot understand what I said.

I spent about 10 years living and working in Japan. They have a health care system that everyone pays for and everyone benefits from. The amount you pay is dependent upon your income. But everyone gets the same high level of care...because that is what they need....and nobody is ever denied care due to lack of coverage.

However, if a person is out of work or through other hardship cannot pay into the system....they are still provided with care. Quite simple, really.

They have a very high degree of preventive medicine and health education in Japan. That is a side effect of having a system that everyone is a part of. The primary motivator in the Japanese health care system is not profit.

[Viki]

Here's the best part. Whereas only Obama used to poll as a winner against McCain....now BOTH Obama and Clinton do. So...the fickle nature of the ULTRA-PARTISAN core of the Republican party may have unwittingly helped Hillary Clinton get closer to the Oval Office.



Ain't life grand!


Yikes, this just isn't true ... what news have you been watching? Clinton consistently beat McCain in a head to head match up, it was only that Obama did so with a few - very few- more percentage points.

[Lone Laugher]

Viki,

I didn't make it up. Here is a historical look at the polls in question.

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Pres-GE-MvC.php

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Pres-GE-MvO.php

No need to apologize. It is an understandable misunderstanding.

[Viki]

Viki,

I didn't make it up. Here is a historical look at the polls in question.

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Pres-GE-MvC.php

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Pres-GE-MvO.php

No need to apologize. It is an understandable misunderstanding.

No misunderstanding, I wake up every morning, java in hand, and watch the polls - Clinton has been beating McCain for ages... as I've repeatedly said for months the dems will win this year and neither do I believe all the whiny crap about how the dems will beat each other up so badly that McCain can slip through ... isn't going to happen.

[cassandra]

Not even close. You are blinded by your partisan politics....and cannot understand what I said.

I spent about 10 years living and working in Japan. They have a health care system that everyone pays for and everyone benefits from. The amount you pay is dependent upon your income. But everyone gets the same high level of care...because that is what they need....and nobody is ever denied care due to lack of coverage.

However, if a person is out of work or through other hardship cannot pay into the system....they are still provided with care. Quite simple, really.

They have a very high degree of preventive medicine and health education in Japan. That is a side effect of having a system that everyone is a part of. The primary motivator in the Japanese health care system is not profit.


Until the part I bolded is changed to everyone pays the same then I will continue to believe it is socialism. :) You are still punishing those who make more to pay for those who don't. BTW we already have a system in place for that.

[Lone Laugher]

You have already made your defining statement...that health care is not a right. You are obviously willing to let sick people with no money suffer in their illness.

What else is theer to say?

[Wabash]

Not even close. You are blinded by your partisan politics....and cannot understand what I said.

I spent about 10 years living and working in Japan. They have a health care system that everyone pays for and everyone benefits from. The amount you pay is dependent upon your income. But everyone gets the same high level of care...because that is what they need....and nobody is ever denied care due to lack of coverage.

However, if a person is out of work or through other hardship cannot pay into the system....they are still provided with care. Quite simple, really.

They have a very high degree of preventive medicine and health education in Japan. That is a side effect of having a system that everyone is a part of. The primary motivator in the Japanese health care system is not profit.
Preventative.....key word! Folks here are sooo morbidly obese and indoctrinated to McDs, that it would never work here....not w/o years of retraining!

You have already made your defining statement...that health care is not a right. You are obviously willing to let sick people with no money suffer in their illness.

What else is theer to say?
Health Care IS NoT a right!

[Lone Laugher]

It is for those of us who have the capacity to care about others.

[cassandra]

It is for those of us who have the capacity to care about others.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if you all could pay extra for them. :D

[Lone Laugher]

Funny. It does not hide the fact that you don't care about the well-being of poor Americans.

[cassandra]

Funny. It does not hide the fact that you don't care about the well-being of poor Americans.

You have no idea how much I contribute or how many times I have given to my community. Here is the difference, nobody is forcing me to. I like it that way. I do a lot for my community and those I love but not one bit of that matters because you don't say it is worthy.

I have been blessed with a great life that I worked hard for and I like to have a little say in how much, when or how I give it out. It means a lot to me and all those others who you want to tax highly to support your causes. I am not your, or any other liberal's, puppet and the things I have earned are mine and I should have the choice of how I would like to give them out.

[Lone Laugher]

Whatever. You act like nobody else makes any sacrifice that benefits you. You are selfish.

[Wabash]

It is for those of us who have the capacity to care about others.
It's nice to know that you care about me LL.....

Wouldn't it be wonderful if you all could pay extra for them. :D
Ya, and help me out at the same time...

You have no idea how much I contribute or how many times I have given to my community. Here is the difference, nobody is forcing me to. I like it that way. I do a lot for my community and those I love but not one bit of that matters because you don't say it is worthy.

I have been blessed with a great life that I worked hard for and I like to have a little say in how much, when or how I give it out. It means a lot to me and all those others who you want to tax highly to support your causes. I am not your, or any other liberal's, puppet and the things I have earned are mine and I should have the choice of how I would like to give them out.
BRAVO ...BRAVO!!! Well said. Tax and Spend liberals like Obie and Clinton, want everyone to pay for all the goof offs of the world...Fuck that!

[Wabash]

Whatever. You act like nobody else makes any sacrifice that benefits you. You are selfish.

No numb skull, she is realistic!!!!

The govt. SHOULD NOT be in the Health Care business...Govt. fucks up everything they touch! They have taped into SS, an amt. of money that should never be touched, tampered with or given to wetbacks! Health Care by Govt. would be a disaster!

[Wabash]

Not even close. You are blinded by your partisan politics....and cannot understand what I said.

I spent about 10 years living and working in Japan. They have a health care system that everyone pays for and everyone benefits from. The amount you pay is dependent upon your income. But everyone gets the same high level of care...because that is what they need....and nobody is ever denied care due to lack of coverage.

However, if a person is out of work or through other hardship cannot pay into the system....they are still provided with care. Quite simple, really.

They have a very high degree of preventive medicine and health education in Japan. That is a side effect of having a system that everyone is a part of. The primary motivator in the Japanese health care system is not profit.

We don't fucking live in Japan...you like it so well, get your ass out of Dodge and move there!!!!:ringo

[AYFR]

It is for those of us who have the capacity to care about others.

Then DONATE. That is what people that really care do.
They don't try and steal money from others to make themselves feel better.

[AYFR]

Whatever. You act like nobody else makes any sacrifice that benefits you. You are selfish.

No you are a thief.

[Lone Laugher]

OK Wabby. I guess our little understanding has expired. Fine with me.

[cassandra]

Whatever. You act like nobody else makes any sacrifice that benefits you. You are selfish.

I know people make sacrifices for me and I am so glad that they do so with a willing heart.

I sure hope you are completely unselfish. I am guessing your front door is open right now and anyone who has the need to eat from your cabinet or sleep in your warm bed, can. I bet you must be so busy making dinner for every homeless person in your town and I can't imagine the laundry you do to ensure that they are all clean and healthy. Oh wait, you are selfish too!

Liberals amaze me with how selfish they are but don't want to think they are.


No numb skull, she is realistic!!!!

The govt. SHOULD NOT be in the Health Care business...Govt. fucks up everything they touch! They have taped into SS, an amt. of money that should never be touched, tampered with or given to wetbacks! Health Care by Govt. would be a disaster!

Thanks Wabby! I am a realist and I am not sheltered and I know hard times.

I cannot imagine anything that would mess up healthcare more than to have the government running it.

Lone Laughter please list all the things the government does well.

Hey and Lone Laughter, thanks for calling me selfish, I call is self preservation, but I took it as a compliment. I am sure that is how you meant it. :kiss

[Lone Laugher]

Just bullshit.

[cassandra]

You are right the government does do bullshit well. :snicker

[Trueblue]

No misunderstanding, I wake up every morning, java in hand, and watch the polls - Clinton has been beating McCain for ages... as I've repeatedly said for months the dems will win this year and neither do I believe all the whiny crap about how the dems will beat each other up so badly that McCain can slip through ... isn't going to happen.

You might try Real Clear Politics, they have polls that show it going either way.

You have no idea how much I contribute or how many times I have given to my community. Here is the difference, nobody is forcing me to. I like it that way. I do a lot for my community and those I love but not one bit of that matters because you don't say it is worthy.

I have been blessed with a great life that I worked hard for and I like to have a little say in how much, when or how I give it out. It means a lot to me and all those others who you want to tax highly to support your causes. I am not your, or any other liberal's, puppet and the things I have earned are mine and I should have the choice of how I would like to give them out.

It isn't about generosity, it's about having a modern and successful society.

[cassandra]

It isn't about generosity, it's about having a modern and successful society.


I am about people making their own successful society. In case you were wondering, people are not successful if I give them everything I worked for.

[Trueblue]

I am about people making their own successful society. In case you were wondering, people are not successful if I give them everything I worked for.

Duh, no shit.

You're always trying to give me my opinion. :lol

Nobody asked for everything, just the kind of health care that the rest of the developed world has.

[Lone Laugher]

TB...you decerve some kind of medal.

Trying to convince these penny-pinching conservatives that it is not our objective to take away their slush fund is like trying to tear a phone book in half.

[cassandra]

Duh, no shit.

You're always trying to give me my opinion. :lol

Nobody asked for everything, just the kind of health care that the rest of the developed world has.

I was giving my opinion. :D

In my opinion you are wrong about how to make people successful. People are sucessful when they acheive on their own merit.

[AYFR]

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

[nixon]

I am about people making their own successful society. In case you were wondering, people are not successful if I give them everything I worked for.In regards to healthcare, you are giving people what you worked hard for already, namely the insurance industry. Who came up with the idea of a pre-existing condition? Who took thier money and had lobbyist work to have legislation passed so they don't have to cover a part of your body? Where I live, one of the "Healthcare providers" has free breast cancer exams even if you don't have insurance. They are real nice people. Doing something for free. But wait, once they document that you have breast cancer, its fuck you, we don't want anything to do with your ass, bitch. Yeah, they are some real nice peple, aren't they? Nixon. Do you remember what Morrisson said down in Miami when he whipped his dick out on stage?

[cassandra]

Nixon if you think that I believe that healthcare is not messed up you are wrong. I however, do not feel that the fix is with socialized healthcare.

[Lone Laugher]

Then WHAT IS THE FIX?????? Lay it out for us. Please.

[waterdog]

Nixon if you think that I believe that healthcare is not messed up you are wrong. I however, do not feel that the fix is with socialized healthcare.
Then WHAT IS THE FIX?????? Lay it out for us. Please.

Health care providing and money grubbing don't mix!

The majority of large industrialized nations have solved the problem with some form of nationalized heathcare where the excessive profits are removed and used to cover those that previously could not afford healthcare.

The "fix" is this country's various leaders putting petty politics aside for awhile and REALLY addressing the health care issue and coming up with a plan/system that provides for the needs of ALL American citizens.

Don't call it "nationalized healthcare" or "socialized healthcare" if those terms offend you so much, but fix the damn problem already!

[Capitalist]

One day we will meet and you won't be so quick to say F off, old man. It's easy to run your cocksucker on the internet. Nixon.

Time and place asswipe, time and place...

Are you even a man?

You must have built up you muscles building those cabinets to make you let your big mouth overload your tiny ass.

[Capitalist]

First of all....Universal health care is NOT socialized healthcare. We'll still pay.....but we won't get ripped off and we won't get denied coverage.

Don't give me Fox News...please.

I have lived in a country with single payer health care...it was GREAT. My wife gave birth to three children there...and was treated like a spa customer for a week each time. You have no idea of what you speak.

The system we have now DENIES people health care. You think that is OK. Is there anything else to say?

I don't want the government any more involved in healthcare than they already are.

It figures a slacker like you would brag about getting something for nothing.

No one here is denied healthcare. If they are slackers and do not take care of it themselves the government will pick up the tab.

what you want is free healthcare for slackers AND none of that feeling bad because you can't pull your own wieght to boot.

I wantem to feel bad for being a slacker.

[Capitalist]

Evolving standards of decency is a concept to consider here.

I think in this day and age, it is a right, and it is an asset to the nation, to have universal access to healthcare.

No, the constitution and our capitalist system are what there is to be considered.

You leftist are always decent when someone else foots the bill for it.

[Capitalist]

Unbelievable!

The Christian conservatives on here have their panties in such a wad about abortion and homosexuals that they would gladly say something like "health care is not a right!" and say that they have no responsibility to care for others who are ill and in need. Your priorities are not in order. They'll vote for McCain because they think he'll stop gay marriage, kill more Muslims and maybe nominate a judge who does not think abortion should be a woman's choice. It is fucked up.

It is so fucking hypocritical...I am speechless.

I have NO responsibility for any individual but myself and my family. Zero responsibility...

I may choose to help someone, IF I choose. I owe no human anything but that which I choose of my own volition to provide.

The exception is the money taken from me by the government at the point of a gun.

I simply choose to do my best to limit the looting of fruits of my productive labor by the government.

As to abortion, I will never understand how anyone who professes to be a Christian (I don't) can say that abortion is ok?

Yet in the same breath they call conservatives who feel that way hypocrits because they are for the death penalty.

Awesome logic, Kill the baby save the killer!

As to homosexuals, I could care less, I do not discriminate against them but will not lift a finger against those that care to, not my problem.

Just so you know, McCain is against the marriage amendment because as a federalist he is for each state making their own decision on that.

He is only for the amendment if the courts try to force one state that does not recognise it to recognise it from another state. Then the amendment need only say that states have the right to decide for themselves.

[Lone Laugher]

I don't want the government any more involved in healthcare than they already are.

It figures a slacker like you would brag about getting something for nothing.

No one here is denied healthcare. If they are slackers and do not take care of it themselves the government will pick up the tab.

what you want is free healthcare for slackers AND none of that feeling bad because you can't pull your own wieght to boot.

I wantem to feel bad for being a slacker.

Your comprehension skills suck, Cappy. Try again

[nixon]

Time and place asswipe, time and place...

Are you even a man?

You must have built up you muscles building those cabinets to make you let your big mouth overload your tiny ass. O.K. The time, let us say Friday the 11th of April at eight P.M. That should give your slow moving grandpa ass enough time, The place, let us say Duffers Sports bar on the corner of Wickam and U.S.192, Melbourne, Florida. You're an old fuckin' jerk-off, and I don't even know why I'm wasting my time. You are gonna be a no-show and just like I said before, its easy to run your cocksucker on the internet, Oldman, but there you go, there is the time and the place. I'll have a Budwieser long neck in my hand and I got a tiny ass so I'll be easy to identify. I'll be waitin', you old pussy.

[Lone Laugher]

Believe it or not.....I know where that is. Small world.

[Saguaro]

Ok Capitalist and Nixon, this has gone on long enough. Stop right now !

[nixon]

Believe it or not.....I know where that is. Small world. LL, maybe you'll join me and the oldman who likes running his cocksucker on the internet for a cold Budwieser while him and I settle our differences, I say he is a no show, what do you think?

[Lone Laugher]

Hmmmm. I'll never turn down a cold brew. What're you guys gonna do? Play darts? Billiards? Shuffleboard?

[nixon]

Ok Capitalist and Nixon, this has gone on long enough. Stop right now !He is the one who said anytime any place. I gave him the time and the location.

[Saguaro]

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[Capitalist]

O.K. The time, let us say Friday the 11th of April at eight P.M. That should give your slow moving grandpa ass enough time, The place, let us say Duffers Sports bar on the corner of Wickam and U.S.192, Melbourne, Florida. You're an old fuckin' jerk-off, and I don't even know why I'm wasting my time. You are gonna be a no-show and just like I said before, its easy to run your cocksucker on the internet, Oldman, but there you go, there is the time and the place. I'll have a Budwieser long neck in my hand and I got a tiny ass so I'll be easy to identify. I'll be waitin', you old pussy.

I used to live in Both Orlabdo and Ft. Lauderdale.

I am going to be down in FT. Laud about Mid-April, I may be able to take you up on your invitation.

Be careful what you wish for little boy...

I'll be easy to spot, I'll be the 6'5" 250 lb pissed off looking dude driving the black Mercedes 500S.

[Capitalist]

LL, maybe you'll join me and the oldman who likes running his cocksucker on the internet for a cold Budwieser while him and I settle our differences, I say he is a no show, what do you think?

You made the first threat, I don't threaten, I act.

Like I said be careful what you wish for, you have no idea who your trying to fuck with little boy.

[AYFR]

Y'all were told to STOP.
It has better STOP NOW, this is the last warning.