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View Full Version : Abu Ghraib prison turned soldiers evil by design: researcher


Saguaro
02-28-2008, 09:47 PM
MONTEREY, California (AFP) - The very design of Abu Ghraib in Iraq turned good soldiers into evil tormentors that humiliated and brutalized prisoners, a famed social psychologist said Thursday.

Stanford University professor Philip Zimbardo described a "Lucifer effect" as he flashed shocking images of Abu Ghraib horrors for those at an elite Technology, Entertainment and Design conference in California.

"If you give people power without oversight it is a formula for abuse," Zimbardo said to a stunned audience the included famous actors, entrepreneurs and politicians.

"Abu Ghraib abuses went on for three months ... Who was watching the store? Nobody, and it was on purpose."

Zimbardo, 75, is renowned for the 1971 Stanford prison experiment in which students on summer break play roles as guards or prisoners in a mock prison in the basement of a building on the university's campus in Northern California.

The pretend guards grew so sadistic and the prisoners so cowed that the experiment was halted prematurely out of concern for the students.

Zimbardo detailed stark parallels to abuses of suspected terrorists by US soldiers at Abu Graib prison in Iraq, and how environment can turn people into heroes or demons.

"I was shocked when I saw those pictures but I wasn't surprised," Zimbardo said of the images he was privy to while a member of a legal defense team for a sergeant charged in connection with prison abuses.

"Because I had seen those cells before at Stanford. The power is in the system. It's not bad apples, but bad barrel makers."

Zimbardo, wearing a black T-shirt with a picture of a devil flanked by two angels, paced the stage as images of horrors flashed on large screens. He lays out his conclusions in a recently released book titled "The Lucifer Effect."

"There is an infinite capacity to make us behave kind or cruel, or make some of us heroes," Zimbardo said, convinced that environment dictates the outcome far more than people's characters or personalities.

"The Stanford prison experiment shows the power of institutions to change behavior. We took good apples and put them in a bad situation."

As a witness for a US military police reservist that was a guard at the Abu Ghraib interrogation center when abuses occurred, Zimbardo got access to records and pictures gathered in the case.

The guards were told to "soften" prisoners to make them more cooperative with military intelligence interrogators, according to Zimbardo.

Photos showed naked and hooded prisoners beaten bloody and being made to commit humiliating acts such as human pyramids or simulating homosexual sex. Soldiers posed proudly with battered corpses and nude, injured prisoners.

A picture shows a soldier firing a bullet into a camel's head at point blank range.

"They took pictures of everything," Zimbardo said.

A "hero" at Abu Ghraib turned out to be a lowly private that called for abuses there to be stopped, according to the professor.

"Heroism is the antidote to evil," Zimbardo said. "Let's focus on justice and peace, which sadly our administration has not been doing."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080229/wl_mideast_afp/scienceusiraqwarsocietymilitarytorture;_ylt=AomQv9 YXinDOKizbfQzNqCOs0NUE

Cookie Parker
02-28-2008, 09:53 PM
When Grandpa Bush adored Hitler, Daddy Bush adored Pinochet and Baby Bush emulates the Saudis and their torture, of course Bush does not mind that there was no oversight to these atrocities.

patriotsblade
02-28-2008, 11:46 PM
I would reccomend a documentary called 'Ghosts of Abu Ghraib'. It addresses exactly this.

Oceanbreeze
02-29-2008, 08:15 AM
The truth will never be knows. So much spin from both sides it's pathetic. :sad

patriotsblade
02-29-2008, 09:56 AM
The truth will never be knows. So much spin from both sides it's pathetic. :sad

I wouldn't call accounts from soldier that actually served there 'spin'. You should watch the documentary.

Oceanbreeze
02-29-2008, 11:39 AM
I wouldn't call accounts from soldier that actually served there 'spin'. You should watch the documentary.

1 soldier? There's always a spin/agenda.

Cookie Parker
02-29-2008, 11:40 AM
1 soldier? There's always a spin/agenda.


Well, you republicans know more about that than we democrats...you eat it up everyday.

The truth is, this was neglected by commanders..and set up by civilian agencies....what do you need beyond that?

Oceanbreeze
02-29-2008, 11:45 AM
Well, you republicans know more about that than we democrats...you eat it up everyday.

The truth is, this was neglected by commanders..and set up by civilian agencies....what do you need beyond that?

:lmao :lmao :lmao

patriotsblade
02-29-2008, 12:25 PM
1 soldier? There's always a spin/agenda.

My apologies, I neglected to pluralize 'soldier'. There several accounts in the documentary, from both officers and enlisted.

What agenda would these soldiers have OB?

Oceanbreeze
02-29-2008, 03:39 PM
My apologies, I neglected to pluralize 'soldier'. There several accounts in the documentary, from both officers and enlisted.

What agenda would these soldiers have OB?

PB: There's no denying Abu Ghraib happened. There's no denying that leadership failed.

My question is why didn't these soliders come forward during the first day this even took place? Why wait 3 months. Shame on all of them.

Capitalist
02-29-2008, 03:57 PM
MONTEREY, California (AFP) - The very design of Abu Ghraib in Iraq turned good soldiers into evil tormentors that humiliated and brutalized prisoners, a famed social psychologist said Thursday.

Stanford University professor Philip Zimbardo described a "Lucifer effect" as he flashed shocking images of Abu Ghraib horrors for those at an elite Technology, Entertainment and Design conference in California.

"If you give people power without oversight it is a formula for abuse," Zimbardo said to a stunned audience the included famous actors, entrepreneurs and politicians.

"Abu Ghraib abuses went on for three months ... Who was watching the store? Nobody, and it was on purpose."

Zimbardo, 75, is renowned for the 1971 Stanford prison experiment in which students on summer break play roles as guards or prisoners in a mock prison in the basement of a building on the university's campus in Northern California.

The pretend guards grew so sadistic and the prisoners so cowed that the experiment was halted prematurely out of concern for the students.

Zimbardo detailed stark parallels to abuses of suspected terrorists by US soldiers at Abu Graib prison in Iraq, and how environment can turn people into heroes or demons.

"I was shocked when I saw those pictures but I wasn't surprised," Zimbardo said of the images he was privy to while a member of a legal defense team for a sergeant charged in connection with prison abuses.

"Because I had seen those cells before at Stanford. The power is in the system. It's not bad apples, but bad barrel makers."

Zimbardo, wearing a black T-shirt with a picture of a devil flanked by two angels, paced the stage as images of horrors flashed on large screens. He lays out his conclusions in a recently released book titled "The Lucifer Effect."

"There is an infinite capacity to make us behave kind or cruel, or make some of us heroes," Zimbardo said, convinced that environment dictates the outcome far more than people's characters or personalities.

"The Stanford prison experiment shows the power of institutions to change behavior. We took good apples and put them in a bad situation."

As a witness for a US military police reservist that was a guard at the Abu Ghraib interrogation center when abuses occurred, Zimbardo got access to records and pictures gathered in the case.

The guards were told to "soften" prisoners to make them more cooperative with military intelligence interrogators, according to Zimbardo.

Photos showed naked and hooded prisoners beaten bloody and being made to commit humiliating acts such as human pyramids or simulating homosexual sex. Soldiers posed proudly with battered corpses and nude, injured prisoners.

A picture shows a soldier firing a bullet into a camel's head at point blank range.

"They took pictures of everything," Zimbardo said.

A "hero" at Abu Ghraib turned out to be a lowly private that called for abuses there to be stopped, according to the professor.

"Heroism is the antidote to evil," Zimbardo said. "Let's focus on justice and peace, which sadly our administration has not been doing."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080229/wl_mideast_afp/scienceusiraqwarsocietymilitarytorture;_ylt=AomQv9 YXinDOKizbfQzNqCOs0NUE

Abu underwear-on-the-head is old news...

Who really cares?

Capitalist
02-29-2008, 03:57 PM
When Grandpa Bush adored Hitler, Daddy Bush adored Pinochet and Baby Bush emulates the Saudis and their torture, of course Bush does not mind that there was no oversight to these atrocities.

Go take some more prozac looney.

Capitalist
02-29-2008, 03:58 PM
Well, you republicans know more about that than we democrats...you eat it up everyday.

The truth is, this was neglected by commanders..and set up by civilian agencies....what do you need beyond that?

In your case an IQ higher than your shoe size.

Capitalist
02-29-2008, 04:01 PM
PB: There's no denying Abu Ghraib happened. There's no denying that leadership failed.

My question is why didn't these soliders come forward during the first day this even took place? Why wait 3 months. Shame on all of them.

I wonder what part any of you think was torture?

Was the naked pile torture? The standing on something with a hood on and electrodes attached to bad places (but no electricity turned on)?

Where any of those guys killed?

Maimed for life?

What is your definition of torture?

Do you think sleep dep is torture?

How about loud noises, cold rooms? Bad music?

Just what do you consider torture?

It seems that the left thinks torture is anything but saying please tel mee.....

nixon
02-29-2008, 04:55 PM
PB: There's no denying Abu Ghraib happened. There's no denying that leadership failed.

My question is why didn't these soliders come forward during the first day this even took place? Why wait 3 months. Shame on all of them. I don't think Hitler was able to build Auschwitz by himself. Crimes against humanity. Shame on everyone.