Hillary questions Campaign finances..yes I am sober!!

[Ringo]

Its OK to get some under the table money from Communist China or OTHER less than appropriate channels, but DON'T Do this OBama! Hillary is a real reformer!!:LL:LL

http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/02/17/clinton-goes-after-obama-over-general-election-campaign-financing-plans/

[Wabash]

Hillary is on the ropes....a full court press is now on...all dirty tricks and dirty deeds are now on the table as options. This is Do or Die time for Comrades Clinton!
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x77/watermelon039/HillarytheSocialist-1.jpg

[Wabash]

Bill spars with Obama supporter
Posted: Sunday, February 17, 2008 5:21 PM by Mark

From NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli
CANTON, OH -- Robert Holeman came to Timken High School here today with a message to deliver to Bill Clinton. He did -- and he said the former president wasn’t happy about it.

Clinton spoke to a capacity crowd in this Northeast Ohio town, the third of five events today in the Buckeye State. He told voters that the contest was “the power of speeches against the promise of solutions by a world-class change maker.”

Throughout the event, as Clinton made his case for his wife, Holeman’s dissenting voice could be heard. At times he simply shouted Obama’s name. When Clinton would set up a sure applause line, Holeman could be heard heckling. As soon as Clinton finished speaking, the Canton native made a beeline to the ropeline to give Clinton a piece of his mind.

“I asked the president to please stop the bickering between the campaigns,” Holeman said in an interview afterwards. “All this name calling is like the bully in the yard. He can’t get his way, he can’t get nothing done.” Holeman said he thought Clinton was “gasping for air.”

“This is the last hurrah. After March 4, Hillary Clinton will be out of the race for good, and Obama will take the commanding lead,” he said. “She should back him with her delegates immediately. That’s what I’m asking them to do.”

Holeman said that Clinton responded by saying Obama came after him first. Holeman also described Clinton’s reaction to him as “irate.”

“I think he even hit me in the face with his hand,” he said. “He did give me a little pop. It was okay, because I understand his tenacity for his wife.” Clinton did engage Holeman for a few minutes, at times pointing directly at him. It was unclear whether he did make physical contact, however.

Holeman said he did support Bill Clinton during his campaigns, but that now the country wants a “new perspective.” “I think the president’s trying hoodwink us, bamboozle us, put us back in the okie doke,” he said. “He had eight years to do what he was supposed to do. All the things he said that she’s gonna do, he had the same authority that he wants her to have. Now if one Clinton, the male Clinton can’t get it done, how is Ms. Clinton [going to].”

Several Clinton supporters who saw the exchange came up to Holeman after to -- shall we say delicately -- express their disapproval for his actions. More negativity, Holeman said. “Hillary Clinton has started the most negative campaign I have ever seen, other than what the Republicans can launch,” he said. “I think we need to come together on those issues.”

*** UPDATE *** Obama spokesperson Ben LaBolt said Holeman was "absolutely not" a plant by the campaign. And a spokesperson for President Clinton who was near the president said there was no physical contact.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/17/673670.aspx

OH...btw...Holeman is an African American.....
Clinton had problems with another heckler in another town in Ohio as well!

[Yellowdogtexan]

This is more complicated than the Faux article discusses. First, you need to understand the context. McCain knows that he can not compete against Senator Obama in fund raising. The only way to equalize the Obama advantage is to get Senator Obama to agree to accept public financing. Senator Obama would be silly to agree to such arrangement unless it dealt with issues like 527s and swiftboaters.

Second, we need to talk about whether McCain has violated the campaign finance laws for the primaries by a loan arrangment. If McCain borrowed against his FEC potential matching funds, then he would be bound by the FEC limits until the GOP national Convention at the end of August which would mean that he would be limited to $2 million or so a month between now and August. McCain got a loan where he indirectly pledged his FEC matching funds and so there is a strong argument that he is violating the Federal election laws. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021503639.htmlJohn McCain's cash-strapped campaign borrowed $1 million from a Bethesda bank two weeks before the New Hampshire primary by pledging to enter the public financing system if his bid for the presidency faltered, newly disclosed records show.....

The unorthodox lending terms also raised fresh questions from McCain's critics about his ability to repeatedly draw money from the Maryland-based Fidelity & Trust Bank. Campaign finance lawyers speculated whether McCain may have inadvertently committed himself to entering the public financing system for the remainder of the primary season by holding out the prospect of taking public matching funds in exchange for the $1 million loan in December.

"This whole area is uncharted," said Lawrence H. Norton, a former general counsel of the FEC.

McCain's attorneys and the Fidelity & Trust president said the loan agreements were carefully scrutinized in advance to make sure they would pass muster with federal banking regulators and the FEC.

"We stayed in a safe zone, and so did he," said Barry C. Watkins, the bank's president. "We were being careful not to force either one of us into a situation we didn't intend."

McCain's campaign filed the modification to his initial $3 million loan on Dec. 17, seeking an additional $1 million. The bank asked him to produce something more than his campaign's assets as collateral.

"They said, 'You've explained how you can afford to borrow more, and how you can pay us back if things go well. What happens if things go badly?' " said Trevor Potter, a McCain attorney.

The campaign's response, Potter said, was that McCain could reapply in the future for federal matching funds, and would agree to use the FEC certifications for those funds as collateral.

Under the agreement, McCain promised that if his campaign began to falter, he would commit to keeping his campaign alive and to entering the federal financing system so the money he had raised could be used to gain an infusion of matching funds. Had that happened, he would have been forced to abide by strict federal spending caps before the Republican National Convention in September.

Under FEC rules, a candidate who uses a certification for federal funds as collateral for a loan is obligated to remain within the public financing system. "We very carefully did not do that," Potter said.

Cleta Mitchell, a veteran campaign finance lawyer and a McCain critic, said she has never encountered a similar agreement.

"They've clearly got a sweetheart deal with this bank," Mitchell said. "This bank is just a cash register for them." It is hard to take McCain's offer on campaign finance seriously when McCain may be in violation of the law today.

[Yellowdogtexan]

The issue of using public financing for the general election is a hard questions. No one has ever raised the funds that Senator Obama has been able to raise and so this issue has not come up before. If Senator Obama agreed to accept public financing, he would be limited as would McCain to $87 million from Sept. 1 through the general election. If Senator Obama does not agree to such a restriction, then he could raise a great deal more and outspend the republicans which is something new.

Contrary to the claims by McCain, Senator Obama never agreed to accept public financing in the general election. http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=would_you_make_a_pledge_with_tI described this a few weeks ago as a "pledge" to participate, but I should not have. Obama's precise statement was, and has always been, "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election." That's an artful statement, and it's not artful in a "meaning of 'is'" sense -- it's exactly the right answer. A commitment to "preserve a publicly financed election" would have to mean much more than whether both participate in the system. It would require some significant agreement about how to handle outside money, 527s, "Swift Boat"-type attack groups, party money, etc., and other factors that have undermined the last two publicly financed elections, from both sides. It is hardly an evasion to describe this as an agreement to be negotiated, rather than a simple pledge.I wonder if Senator McCain would agree to forgo swiftboat attacks and the like in order to get Senator Obama to agree to accept public financing. Remember, Senator McCain stool by and let the swiftboaters lie about Senator Kerry and the Democrats are not going to let that happen again. The claim that there was a pledge by Senator Obama to accept public financing is simply wrong given the issues that he and Senator Obama would have to agree to

[Ringo]

Bill spars with Obama supporter
Posted: Sunday, February 17, 2008 5:21 PM by Mark

From NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli
CANTON, OH -- Robert Holeman came to Timken High School here today with a message to deliver to Bill Clinton. He did -- and he said the former president wasn’t happy about it.

Clinton spoke to a capacity crowd in this Northeast Ohio town, the third of five events today in the Buckeye State. He told voters that the contest was “the power of speeches against the promise of solutions by a world-class change maker.”

Throughout the event, as Clinton made his case for his wife, Holeman’s dissenting voice could be heard. At times he simply shouted Obama’s name. When Clinton would set up a sure applause line, Holeman could be heard heckling. As soon as Clinton finished speaking, the Canton native made a beeline to the ropeline to give Clinton a piece of his mind.

“I asked the president to please stop the bickering between the campaigns,” Holeman said in an interview afterwards. “All this name calling is like the bully in the yard. He can’t get his way, he can’t get nothing done.” Holeman said he thought Clinton was “gasping for air.”

“This is the last hurrah. After March 4, Hillary Clinton will be out of the race for good, and Obama will take the commanding lead,” he said. “She should back him with her delegates immediately. That’s what I’m asking them to do.”

Holeman said that Clinton responded by saying Obama came after him first. Holeman also described Clinton’s reaction to him as “irate.”

“I think he even hit me in the face with his hand,” he said. “He did give me a little pop. It was okay, because I understand his tenacity for his wife.” Clinton did engage Holeman for a few minutes, at times pointing directly at him. It was unclear whether he did make physical contact, however.

Holeman said he did support Bill Clinton during his campaigns, but that now the country wants a “new perspective.” “I think the president’s trying hoodwink us, bamboozle us, put us back in the okie doke,” he said. “He had eight years to do what he was supposed to do. All the things he said that she’s gonna do, he had the same authority that he wants her to have. Now if one Clinton, the male Clinton can’t get it done, how is Ms. Clinton [going to].”

Several Clinton supporters who saw the exchange came up to Holeman after to -- shall we say delicately -- express their disapproval for his actions. More negativity, Holeman said. “Hillary Clinton has started the most negative campaign I have ever seen, other than what the Republicans can launch,” he said. “I think we need to come together on those issues.”

*** UPDATE *** Obama spokesperson Ben LaBolt said Holeman was "absolutely not" a plant by the campaign. And a spokesperson for President Clinton who was near the president said there was no physical contact.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/17/673670.aspx

OH...btw...Holeman is an African American.....
Clinton had problems with another heckler in another town in Ohio as well!

I bet that was a pussy slap as Little Billy knew the SS would protect his miserable cowardly girly yellow ass!! To bad the guy didn't cold cock the fat fuck!!

[Ringo]

The issue of using public financing for the general election is a hard questions. No one has ever raised the funds that Senator Obama has been able to raise and so this issue has not come up before. If Senator Obama agreed to accept public financing, he would be limited as would McCain to $87 million from Sept. 1 through the general election. If Senator Obama does not agree to such a restriction, then he could raise a great deal more and outspend the republicans which is something new.

Contrary to the claims by McCain, Senator Obama never agreed to accept public financing in the general election. http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=02&year=2008&base_name=would_you_make_a_pledge_with_tI wonder if Senator McCain would agree to forgo swiftboat attacks and the like in order to get Senator Obama to agree to accept public financing. Remember, Senator McCain stool by and let the swiftboaters lie about Senator Kerry and the Democrats are not going to let that happen again. The claim that there was a pledge by Senator Obama to accept public financing is simply wrong given the issues that he and Senator Obama would have to agree to

There were NO lies about Kerry, the Bluebloods from Mass and the Navy rigged his showboat antics and he took Purples fro things he was undeserved of getting!!!

Kerry is a damn jerk, he got what he deserved, Get over it Liberal Boy Whiner!!!

[Trueblue]

I can hardly wait till you guys figure out who to unleash your hatred upon when we choose our nominee. :lol

[Yellowdogtexan]

If Senator Obama is the nominee, he has the option of not taking the public financing and then potentially being able to outspend McCain heavily. Before Senator Obama gives up that advantage, he is going to want to get a binding agreement from McCain on issues such as the lies used by the Swiftboaters. Kerry was wrong to let the swiftboaters tell such lies and Senator Obama has learned from this mistake.

McCain can not afford to compete against Senator Obama and so needs to make a deal on public finance. Senator Clinton is trying to use this issue against Senator Obama because she has tapped out her donors and would have to use public financing if she was the Democratic nominee. Taking sides with McCain on this issue is a risky move by Senator Clinton and may backfire on her.

It is amusing for the Democrats to be in the superior financial position before an election and Senator Obama needs to be careful here. I agree with his position of waiting until after the nomination is secured and then either getting a good deal with the GOP and if the GOP will not foresake swiftboating, then going with private financing and burying McCain in the general election

[Ringo]

If Senator Obama is the nominee, he has the option of not taking the public financing and then potentially being able to outspend McCain heavily. Before Senator Obama gives up that advantage, he is going to want to get a binding agreement from McCain on issues such as the lies used by the Swiftboaters. Kerry was wrong to let the swiftboaters tell such lies and Senator Obama has learned from this mistake.

McCain can not afford to compete against Senator Obama and so needs to make a deal on public finance. Senator Clinton is trying to use this issue against Senator Obama because she has tapped out her donors and would have to use public financing if she was the Democratic nominee. Taking sides with McCain on this issue is a risky move by Senator Clinton and may backfire on her.

It is amusing for the Democrats to be in the superior financial position before an election and Senator Obama needs to be careful here. I agree with his position of waiting until after the nomination is secured and then either getting a good deal with the GOP and if the GOP will not foresake swiftboating, then going with private financing and burying McCain in the general election

Yea, I guess its time to take a little DIRTY money, instead of allowing the Dems to steal it all from Commies and Criminals! Hell its the American way!

[Wabash]

Listening to Michelle obama telling a group, that for the first time in her life, she is proud of her country.

She wasn't proud of how we came together after 911? She wasn't proud when the wall came down? She wasn't proud when Bill did Monica?

We have to remember, this is a family of privilege. They both went to private schools, they didn't have to battle discrimination in the streets, they are millionaires. They are nothing like the avg. black in the hood.....any hood! Actually, they are nothing like most of us...

[Yellowdogtexan]

This thread was about fund raising and the use of public finance in the general election not miscellaneous rants. Senator Obama has been very sucessful raising funds from small contributors and has the ability to fund his general election campaign without public financing. Unlike Senator Clinton or mcvain, Senator Obama is not taking money from lobbyists or pacs and the money that he is raising does not have the taint with normal fundraising from special interests and lobbyists.

The purpose of public financing of presidential elections was to remove the appearance that special interests groups have too much influcence with the candidate due to the candidate's dependence on their money. That concern does not apply when the bulk of Senator Obama's money is being raised on line from small contributors. Senator Obama could easily financed on the internet a general election war chest that would allowed him to outspend the republicans and still not be subject to the normal claims that he was in the pockets of the special interests who financed his campaign. That is why McVain tried to manufacture a bogus claaim that Senator Obama pledged to use public finance for the general election. Senator Obama should not agree to the use of public financing for the general election unless he as a good agreement on a number of issues from the GOP including on swiftboating.

Senator Clinton joined in this squabble to try to make it look like Senator Obama has flip flopped on the issue of the use of public financing for the general electon. This is amusing in that Senator Clinton has not necessarily committed to the use of public financing if she is the nominee and so has no grounds to complain about Senator Obama's plans. Again, there was no flip flop here by Senator Obama and it is wrong for Senator Clinton to side with mccain on this issue.

Again, the Obama campaign has done something amazing and so the concerns about the use of public financing for the general election does not apply here.