GOP trying to protect McCain on Torture Vote (waterboarding banned by Senate)

[Yellowdogtexan]

This is amusing. McCain is against waterboarding and the use of torture. It would be difficult for him to vote for the use of torture without alienating his base. One of the reasonswhy the conservatives are upset with McCain is that they think that he is too soft on the use of torture. GOP Senators withdrew their filibuster on a bill that banned the use of waterboard so that McCain would not have to take a position on the use of torture. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/senate_expected_to_vote_on_use.phpThis is what the administration's recent pro-waterboarding PR offensive had been leading up to. But the Republican side backed down.

Later this afternoon, the Senate will be voting on a bill authorizing the government's intelligence activities. Included in that bill is a measure sponsored by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) that would restrict the interrogation methods the CIA could use to the Army Field Manual, which bans waterboarding and other harsh techniques currently used by the CIA. The Republicans had been expected to challenge that provision, forcing a vote. But they didn't. After a vote on the bill in 90 minutes or so, it will be on its way to the President, who has already announced that he will veto it

So why the sudden retreat? It's not clear how the votes would have come down, exactly. But Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), who has frequently spoken out against waterboarding, was considered a key vote, creating the potentially awkward situation of him taking a stand against the president. 60 votes would have been needed to retain the measure. Now that situation has been avoided -- for now. If the president follows through with his veto threat, the Senate would hold a vote to override the veto, and McCain's vote would become an issue again, though perhaps this time, not such a crucial one.The good news is that the Senate has voted to ban waterboarding. The bad news is that McCain was not forced to vote against bush and was allowed to duck this issue. It will be interesting to see if bush vetoes this bill and forces McCain to vote on the veto.

[Trueblue]

One of the best things about this election is that all three of these candidates are firmly opposed to torture.

[Yellowdogtexan]

One of the best things about this election is that all three of these candidates are firmly opposed to torture.McCain just voted for the use of torture and so he has flip flopped on this issue. http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/13/mccain-waterboarding-fail/Today, the Senate brought the Intelligence Authorization Bill to the floor, containing a provision from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) that establishes one interrogation standard, requiring the intelligence community to abide by the same standards as articulated in the Army Field Manual and banning waterboarding.

Just hours ago, the Senate voted in favor of the bill, 51-45.

Earlier today, ThinkProgress noted that Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), a former prisoner of war, has spoken strongly in favor of implementing the Army Field Manual standard. When confronted today with the decision of whether to stick with his conscience or cave to the right wing, McCain chose to ditch his principles and instead vote to preserve waterboarding:Mr. McCain, a former prisoner of war, has consistently voiced opposition to waterboarding and other methods that critics say is a form torture. But the Republicans, confident of a White House veto, did not mount the challenge. Mr. McCain voted “no” on Wednesday afternoon.The New York Times Times notes that “the White House has long said Mr. Bush will veto the bill, saying it ‘would prevent the president from taking the lawful actions necessary to protect Americans from attack in wartime.’”

After Bush vetoes the bill, McCain will again be confronted with a vote to either stand with President Bush or stand against torture. He indicated with his vote today where he will come down on that issue.

John McCain: He was against waterboarding before he was for it.McCain wants to make the conservatives happy and so he has flip flopped on this important issue. McCain is against torture unless such a vote would upset the conservative base of the GOP and then he is for torture. McCain's status as a maverick and an independent minder leader really took a major hit today.

[Trueblue]

I can't believe he did that. :no

[issac the dragon]

I wish I could say I was surprised. I think the desire to be president drives people insane. "All that power. And it's mine."

That is one of the reasons older people can't get excited about the Obama movement. We've seen too many people sucumb to the lure of that brass ring. And I'm not sure idealists aren't the worst when they go down.

[patriotsblade]

Issac, exit polls from Virginia showed Obama has taken much of Clinton's base, including older voters. :yep

[Wabash]

This is amusing. McCain is against waterboarding and the use of torture. It would be difficult for him to vote for the use of torture without alienating his base. One of the reasonswhy the conservatives are upset with McCain is that they think that he is too soft on the use of torture. GOP Senators withdrew their filibuster on a bill that banned the use of waterboard so that McCain would not have to take a position on the use of torture. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/senate_expected_to_vote_on_use.phpThe good news is that the Senate has voted to ban waterboarding. The bad news is that McCain was not forced to vote against bush and was allowed to duck this issue. It will be interesting to see if bush vetoes this bill and forces McCain to vote on the veto.
A lot of assumin on your part as usual to try and get a dig in at the GOP, showing your Extreme Bias! Some on liberal BS from AC!

[Wabash]

I can't believe he did that. :no
Well, after ambulance chaser doctors up the piece...it makes it sound real bad for McCain...some how, I think he has overstated ...I wouldn't take everything this Biased person puts out, as gospel. He's lied many times on here to try and win the argument...

I wish I could say I was surprised. I think the desire to be president drives people insane. "All that power. And it's mine."

That is one of the reasons older people can't get excited about the Obama movement. We've seen too many people sucumb to the lure of that brass ring. And I'm not sure idealists aren't the worst when they go down.
Some times you just royally piss me off, other times, like this one, you are Dead On!:paclap

Issac, exit polls from Virginia showed Obama has taken much of Clinton's base, including older voters. :yep
No accounting for the ignorance of some...no fools like some old fools!

[Wabash]

Thing is...when a Pied Piper plays his tune, there seems to be no boundary for the foolishness of many, no matter what demographic.
Obama has made a lot of promises and predictions with no real substance or proof of culmination or reward!

[Yellowdogtexan]

Poor wabby is so poorly informed about political matters that we need to educate him. Here is an article that explains the games being played on this vote. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/178422.phpIt appears that waterboarding and Republican presidential ambitions may have collided today in the Senate.

At issue is a Democratic measure that would restrict the CIA to using those interrogation methods listed in the Army Field Manual. In other words, it would bar the CIA from employing so-called "enhanced interrogation" techniques.

Republicans were expected to use a parliamentary procedure today that would have blocked the measure by requiring a 60-vote minimum to proceed. But here's where it gets interesting.

Presumptive Republican nominee John McCain opposes waterboarding, which would have put him in the position of voting with the Democrats and against the President on this measure, perhaps giving the Dems the 60 votes necessary to proceed.

So the Republicans scuttled that planned parliamentary maneuver, and the full bill went to a vote a little while ago, barely passing, 51-45. Notably, McCain voted against the bill. One would expect that his publicly stated reason for opposing it will be something other than the anti-waterboarding provision.

The GOP thinking may be that it's better to have the bill pass and the President veto it, than have the current Republican nominee and the President so publicly at odds.

That sets up an interesting situation when and if a veto override is attempted. But with the two-thirds vote required for an override seemingly out of reach, McCain's vote may be less crucial.
McCain was for banning torture before he was against it

[Deadshot]

I don't see how McCain gets out of this one in the election.

Right now he's simply pandering to the Right. But his strength is supposed to be that he could steal Independents and Liberals from Hillary or compete with Obama for the middle.

This vote, as well as the comment that we'll be in Iraq for 100 years, are going to alienate him with the middle more then anything else. He'll regret this vote for a long time.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Bob Dole resigned from the Senate during his run in 1996 because he was being forced into votes that hurt his positions on the issues. The Democrats are going to do the same to McCain on a number of issues and force him to either alienate the conservatives or the independents by making hard votes on issues. The torture vote here is just one example.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Countdown had fun with Mccain 's flip flops on torture Here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deVf_fTSDP8

[Yellowdogtexan]

McCain is pandering to the nut cases in the GOP who think that torture is a good idea. McCain sold his soul in 2004 when he supported bush and now has forfeited what remains of his soul with this vote. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/john-mccain-sells-his-sou_b_86700.htmlHas there ever been a more repugnant example of political pandering than John McCain's decision to vote against a bill banning waterboarding, putting hoods on prisoners, forcing them to perform sex acts, subjecting them to mock executions, or depriving them of food, water, and medical treatment?

That's right, John McCain, the former POW who has long been an outspoken critic of the Bush administration's disturbing embrace of extreme interrogation techniques.

But that was before his desperate attempt to win over the lunatic fringe that is running the Grand Old Party.

Earlier this week, I showed how outdated the image of McCain as an independent-thinking maverick had become -- and called on the media and independent voters to snap out of their 2000 reverie and see the 2008 McCain for what he has turned into: a Rove-embracing Bush clone, willing to jettison his principles in his hunger for the presidency.

And now comes this latest unconscionable capitulation, which should drive a stake through the heart of the McCain-as-straight-talker meme once and for all.

McCain the maverick had been unequivocal in his condemnation of torture, and eloquent in expressing why. "We've sent a message to the world that the United States is not like the terrorists," he said at an Oval Office appearance in December 2005, after he had forced the president to endorse an earlier torture ban McCain had authored and pushed through (a ban the president quickly subverted with a signing statement). "What we are is a nation that upholds values and standards of behavior and treatment of all people, no matter how evil or bad they are. And I think this will help us enormously in winning the war for the hearts and minds of people throughout the world in the war on terror."

He made a similar case on the campaign trail in Iowa in October 2007: "When I was imprisoned, I took heart from the fact that I knew my North Vietnamese captors would never be treated like I was treated by them. There are much better and more effective ways to get information. You torture someone long enough, he'll tell you whatever he thinks you want to know."

And there was this pithy and powerful summation of why torture should never be an option: "It's not about who they are, it's about who we are."

Of course, all that was before he put his conscience in leg irons -- and before caving to the would-be Torquemadas on the Right became his campaign strategy.McCain has given up any claim that he is a maverick and is now no better that bush and the repugs who think that torture is good policy. This vote will be used agaisnt McCain in the general election.

[Yellowdogtexan]

This is amusing http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/buckley-mccain-girly-man/In the New York Times this morning, Christopher Buckley — the son of National Review founder William F. Buckley — defends Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) from what he calls the “Torquemadas of the right” who are challenging his conservative credentials. After running down the list of McCain’s heresies, Buckley claims that McCain’s position on torture is out of the conservative mainstream:And — true, again — Mr. McCain is a bit of a girlie-man when it comes to waterboarding high-value detainees; but that’s a tricky one, even for macho, red-meat conservative chest-thumpers. You get a pass on that one if you’ve spent five-and-a-half years being bastinadoed by North Vietnamese.Buckley’s description of McCain as a “girlie-man” reveals a couple of things. The first is Buckley’s belief that one’s “manliness” can be deduced from his support for torture. The second, and more important, is that the state of American conservatism is such that McCain requires “forgiveness” for opposing torture.

The truth is, however, that despite McCain’s statements against waterboarding, he has consistently supported legislative language that protects the Bush administration’s prerogatives to use it.

McCain did this again last week, when he voted against an amendment that would have required the intelligence community to abide by the same standards as the Army Field Manual, something which he previously claimed to support. As Steve Benen wrote:When push came to shove, and the nation looked to the senator take a stand on principle, McCain balked.Despite his reputation as a maverick, McCain appears to be changing his position a lot lately in order to appease the right wing.McCain sold out his claim for benig a maverick and is still considered a girly man by the silly conservatives.