VOTING AT 16

[issac the dragon]

THE 2008 presidential campaign has made history in many ways, not least being the arrival of a new generation at the polls. Voters under 29 were the first to anoint Barack Obama as their candidate. Reversing a general decline that began in 1972, youth turnout leapt in 2004, and in the early contests in this primary season it was up sharply.

Age thresholds are meant to bring an impartial data point to bear on insoluble moral questions: who can be legally executed, who can die in Iraq, who can operate the meat cutter at the local sub shop. But in a time when both youth and age are being extended, these dividing lines are increasingly inadequate.

Legal age requirements should never stand alone. They should be flexible and pragmatic and paired with educational and cognitive requirements for the exercise of legal maturity.

Driving laws provide the best model for combining early beginnings and mandatory education. Many states have had success with a gradual phasing in of driving rights over a year or more, starting with a learner’s permit at age 16. The most restrictive of these programs are associated with a 38 percent reduction in fatal crashes among the youngest drivers, according to a study conducted by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety.

Similarly, 16-year-olds who want to start voting should be able to obtain an “early voting permit” from their high schools upon passing a simple civics course similar to the citizenship test. Besides increasing voter registration, this system would reinforce the notion of voting as a privilege and duty as well as a right — without imposing any across-the-board literacy tests for those over 18.

And why stop at voting? Sixteen is a good starting point for phasing in adult rights and responsibilities, from voting to drinking to marriage. In reality, this is already when most people have their first jobs, their first drinks and their sexual initiations. The law ought to empower young people to negotiate these transitions openly, not furtively.

We know driving laws reflect reality; whoever heard of the scourge of under-age driving?
ttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/opinion/06kamenetz.html?ref=opinion

There is more to this op, but I wondered what you though about sixteen year old voting?

[Matt]

This requires more thought on my part.
The best part mentioned is the having to have a civics course. I can't imagine why an in depth course is not available in all high schools.
This is when young people are most excited about how things work.Why not learn how and why things are done the way they are in the government.

I was amazed at how little people knew about the ballot on Tuesday.
They kept wanting me, a poll worker, to explain delegates, which was on the Republican ballot.
I honestly didn't have a clue what would happen if they selected a delegate that was listed as 'committed to Fred Thompson', and, of course, I was not to discuss anything political.
We are told in training that the voter is supposed to come to the polls prepared on the political side and if we get into explaining it could appear that we were trying to influence the way the voter voted.

Let's get that civics lesson started and at least get those kids a sample ballot to experience voting up close and personal.

[Capitalist]

It was stupid to move it down to 18, moving it to 16 would be one of the dumbest things I can imagine.

Hell I would be ok with making the voting age 25, not making it lower.

[Cookie Parker]

I think youth involvement is spurned from the fact young people see there is no economic opportunities in this nation to allow them to become economically independent..and a college education only gets you on at McDonald's and all those other "service industries" daddy Bush promised us in his terms in office.

The youth need to take over the reigns of this nation...it's their future..the old congress has pissed it away at their get rich quick schemes....lead by the corporate king president Bush.

[Capitalist]

I think youth involvement is spurned from the fact young people see there is no economic opportunities in this nation to allow them to become economically independent..and a college education only gets you on at McDonald's and all those other "service industries" daddy Bush promised us in his terms in office.

The youth need to take over the reigns of this nation...it's their future..the old congress has pissed it away at their get rich quick schemes....lead by the corporate king president Bush.

Your kidding right? The youth don't know who the f'ing VP is. They don't know who their congreeman or Senators are?

You really want poeple that stupid voting?

Oh sorry I forgot your a democrat, of course you want stupid people voting.

[Saguaro]

They should leave it at 18

[Capitalist]

They should leave it at 18

I guess you have not talked to many 18 year olds lately.

Very few are informed enough to make decisions like voting.

But hey, they are all for helping people with OP money.

[cassandra]

Can you remember all the mistakes you made at 16. YIKES!!!! I cannot see how 16 year olds would make informed decisions on what is best for this country.

I honestly think it should be raised to 21. Give 18 year olds time to see how the world works and then allow them to give a vote on long term decisions.

[Saguaro]

If that is done, then no military service before 21

[Capitalist]

If that is done, then no military service before 21

Naw, you let them vote if they have an active duty military ID card.

But I like 25 better.

[Yellowdogtexan]

I guess you have not talked to many 18 year olds lately.

Very few are informed enough to make decisions like voting.That may be true for freepers but most young people are far better informed than you and your fellow freepers are. Given how poorly informed you are on the issues, you should be careful about wanting to limit the right to vote. A strong case can be made for denying freepers and people like you the right to vote just as you want to do to the poor and the elderly.

[Capitalist]

That may be true for freepers but most young people are far better informed than you and your fellow freepers are. Given how poorly informed you are on the issues, you should be careful about wanting to limit the right to vote. A strong case can be made for denying freepers and people like you the right to vote just as you want to do to the poor and the elderly.

Why don't you take your insulting arroganr tone and stick it up your ass.

You are not qualified to carry my jockstrap (nor stong enough) so just go away until you actually have something relevant to say.

[cassandra]

If that is done, then no military service before 21

Hmmm still thinking on that one. On one hand, sure they aren't really knowledgeable enough about the world to make this informed decision.

However, if viewed like a job, then it is giving them that real life experience that makes them informed voters.

[Saguaro]

Why don't you take your insulting arroganr tone and stick it up your ass.

You are not qualified to carry my jockstrap (nor stong enough) so just go away until you actually have something relevant to say.

Enough with the insults, Cisco This is a moderated forum

[Capitalist]

Enough with the insults, Cisco This is a moderated forum

So YDT is ok to call me names but because HE complains I get called on the carpet, that's crap.

When he shows some respect I will untill then he can kiss something...

[Trueblue]

I know a lot of well-informed 18 year olds. Especially when I compare them to some of their elders.

[issac the dragon]

We gave the vote to 18 year olds because they were being sent to fight for our country by a president they were unable to vote for. There is no reason to extend the vote to 16 year olds.

Capitallist, most people don't discuss their jock straps on MB's. But since you brought it up, larger sizes are worn by fat men, not men who are well endowed. Or maybe you wear yours on your ego.

[jim]

We gave the vote to 18 year olds because they were being sent to fight for our country by a president they were unable to vote for. There is no reason to extend the vote to 16 year olds.

Capitallist, most people don't discuss their jock straps on MB's. But since you brought it up, larger sizes are worn by fat men, not men who are well endowed. Or maybe you wear yours on your ego.
[

:lmao:lmao

[Trueblue]

We gave the vote to 18 year olds because they were being sent to fight for our country by a president they were unable to vote for. There is no reason to extend the vote to 16 year olds.

Capitallist, most people don't discuss their jock straps on MB's. But since you brought it up, larger sizes are worn by fat men, not men who are well endowed. Or maybe you wear yours on your ego.

:lmao

[Capitalist]

We gave the vote to 18 year olds because they were being sent to fight for our country by a president they were unable to vote for. There is no reason to extend the vote to 16 year olds.

Capitallist, most people don't discuss their jock straps on MB's. But since you brought it up, larger sizes are worn by fat men, not men who are well endowed. Or maybe you wear yours on your ego.

That pick in my avatar is me 2 months ago.

I think it is obvious I am not fat.

As to the JS reference, if you had ever been an athlete, or if any man in your life had been, you would know that the reference is about physical and athletic ability.

Gee you have to explain everything to these ignorant socialists.

[Capitalist]

:lmao

And one of your socialist friends accuses me of posts empty of content.

You guys are nothing but a bunch of mindless cheerleaders.

[Trueblue]

Way to show grace after you're zinged, Cap. :lol

[Capitalist]

Way to show grace after you're zinged, Cap. :lol

Zinged? Well since it seems none of you estrogen laden (unless you have had menopause matt) leftists know what the Jock strap reference actually refers to, I was not the one Zinged.

[Matt]

I guess you have not talked to many 18 year olds lately.

Very few are informed enough to make decisions like voting.

But hey, they are all for helping people with OP money.

I have talked to quite a few 18 years olds and they seem to be just as informed as the older voters ~ maybe more so.
The fact that Bush was elected on fear, smear and queer is an indication of just how irresponsibly some of the older generation votes. And that was after he sent the 18 year olds into an ill-advised and poorly planned war of convenience for he and Cheney.

Bush's idiocy has caused so many to die or be maimed for life and yesterday he said he has made sure that the troops got what they needed ~ ~ on the same day that the report came out that they are still waiting for the special vehicles ~ that could be available but costly.

It will be up to two years before they get what they need to survive this war ~ and you are proud he lowered taxes. That's blood money that he is saving because it certainly hasn't helped the economy.

That rich vp, that you think the 18 year olds can't identify, could buy a few of the vehicles on the money he has garnered because of this war.

[Trueblue]

Face it, Cappy, she got you. It happens. :lol

[jim]

Like I said several times on the psycho-board, I figured out things about the way the economy would likely go if the WWII "Boom" times became the modus vivendithat the Repubs haven't figured out or facedyet - even with all the signs we have...Hell, many - perhaps most - can figure better than the modern adults. Most of the American people are CHILDREN nowadays anyway.:mw:aliens:tarty:pblade:crowd:woohoo

[Saguaro]

So YDT is ok to call me names but because HE complains I get called on the carpet, that's crap.

When he shows some respect I will untill then he can kiss something...

You are insulting everyone, not just one. You can surely get your point across without insults.

[Matt]

Only if he challenges the Phoenix to a duel in Franklin. :wink
He has size, ego and claims to have big balls ~ perhaps he was talking of basketballs. Sometimes his anger makes his post hard to read.

I've heard him talk and read his writings when he didn't personally attack or use language not generally acceptable. In some settings, he sounds intelligent enough to write with ease. I would truly love to see him do that here.

We need differing ideas presented.
AND we need to be able to counter those ideas.
With both sides leaving off the personal insults, we have a much better discussion.

Are there not areas here where one can let it all hang out?

[Saguaro]

There is the Looney Lounge

[Capitalist]

You are insulting everyone, not just one. You can surely get your point across without insults.

When aholes like YST stop insulting me then I will consider it.

But he impunes the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with him. F him, I will just be meaner in my insults, but he insults all the same.

[Capitalist]

Only if he challenges the Phoenix to a duel in Franklin. :wink
He has size, ego and claims to have big balls ~ perhaps he was talking of basketballs. Sometimes his anger makes his post hard to read.

I've heard him talk and read his writings when he didn't personally attack or use language not generally acceptable. In some settings, he sounds intelligent enough to write with ease. I would truly love to see him do that here.

We need differing ideas presented.
AND we need to be able to counter those ideas.
With both sides leaving off the personal insults, we have a much better discussion.

Are there not areas here where one can let it all hang out?


When your side stops insulting I will as well. I just insult in a more visceral and nasty way, but insults are insults. don't give em and you won't get them.

[Saguaro]

:bs

[Matt]

When aholes like YST stop insulting me then I will consider it.

But he impunes the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with him.

You just did a mirror image of you.

No one else on this board is as sensitive as you are about being disagreed with. You have been on boards where you did not have to worry about being disagreed with and could be as crass as you wanted to be.

I have already said that you are capable of a civil discussion. Your insults are usually more asinine than offensive.
Show your knowledge of the subject instead of dealing in personal insults and male ego ~ or duke it out in the Looney Lounge. You might like it. Some very good threads end up being transferred there.

[Wabash]

When aholes like YST stop insulting me then I will consider it.

But he impunes the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with him. F him, I will just be meaner in my insults, but he insults all the same.

Nothing truer was ever said on this board!