THE ACLU FIGHTS FOR CHRISTIANS

[Yellowdogtexan]

I found this website to be interesting and something that Wabby may want to look at. http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/The ACLU fights just as hard for INDIVIDUAL free exercise of religion as the ACLU fights against GOVERNMENT endorsement, sponsorship, or establishment of religion. Despite this fact, many people spread misinformation about the ACLU around the internet, innocently and maliciously, falsely claiming the ACLU is anti-religion or anti-Christian.

This list of FACTS counteracts that misinformation. These links represent just a few of the many examples of the ACLU defending the free speech and free exercise rights of Christians (for purposes of this list, the word “Christian” means a person who self-identifies as “Christian”).

In every example, the ACLU is defending the right of a Christian to speak as a Christian or to practice Christianity. Here is a good article on one of the cases that the ACLU is pursuing. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07011/752795-152.stmThere's a lesson for Allegheny County's other municipalities in their battle, and there's a welcome reminder for the religious faithful that, sometimes, the American Civil Liberties Union works as hard to keep government out of religion as it works to keep religious expression out of, well, everywhere else.

Ms. Foster had been running a Wednesday night meal program in the basement of Trinity Church of God in Christ until shortly before Thanksgiving. With donated money and volunteers, she'd been feeding about 25 needy people, many of them residents of the McKeesport YMCA, once a week for six years without any incident.

When the pastor of another church called her to ask how to launch a similar ministry, Ms. Foster roused a sleeping and apparently ill-willed bureaucracy by following its rules. She called the county Health Department and the McKeesport zoning office to gather information for the pastor, and someone in the zoning office told her she'd been breaking the law herself by running a meal program in a residential neighborhood without a variance.

At the hearing she requested to obtain the variance, two neighbors testified that soup kitchen patrons might pose a threat to public safety if they loitered in the neighborhood's many abandoned buildings. Six people testified in Ms. Foster's behalf, but the variance was denied and the meal program ended.

"Our position is that this soup kitchen is part of the church's mission, and no separate application should be required," lawyer Alan Shuckrow said.

Mr. Shuckrow stepped in to handle Ms. Foster's appeal after the ACLU contacted his law firm. A Republican member of the North Allegheny school board, he's pro bono counsel and a former board member of North Hills Community Outreach, a long-established food pantry which sits on the campus of St. Paul United Methodist Church in McCandless.

Feeding the hungry and clothing the poor are core ministries of any church, Mr. Shuckrow pointed out. Ruling that people can't go to a church to be fed, he said, "is like saying a law firm can't hold a large client meeting."There are numerous other examples.

[Trueblue]

There are many other examples. I used to have a list of them.

[Yellowdogtexan]

There are many other examples. I used to have a list of them.This cite or link has a good list. I can post examples for a long time to come if I need to shut up some silly conservatives.

[Wabash]

Aa--mmmmm....you might want to come up with somemore, because this one is not what I call defending citizens by the ACLU!
Mr. Shuckrow stepped in to handle Ms. Foster's appeal after the ACLU contacted his law firm. A Republican member of the North Allegheny school board, he's pro bono counsel and a former board member of North Hills Community Outreach, a long-established food pantry which sits on the campus of St. Paul United Methodist Church in McCandless.

The ACLU made a phone call or wrote a letter or came by in person. The man is doing it pro bono and he's a Christian!
The ACLU did little in assisting here...as I see it...anyone, even I, could have made a phone call.

[Trueblue]

I've posted other examples, Wabash. They helped Jerry Falwell and Liberty University. They helped a woman whose religion forbade her to take oaths. There are numerous examples.

[Wabash]

I've posted other examples, Wabash. They helped Jerry Falwell and Liberty University. They helped a woman whose religion forbade her to take oaths. There are numerous examples.

Tell "The Rest of the Story" TB....don't leave out the best part!


These kind of cases are less than 1% or cases the ACLU is involved in....and this example was a Piss Poor one!!!!
The truth is that a majority of cases with ACLU involvement includes sexual deviates and anti Christian groups of all kinds.

They aren't concerned with the Constitution as much as they are concerned with bashing Christianity! I'LL stand behind those words too!!!!!!

[nixon]

Hey Wabs- When the government gets info that implicates YOU, and holds you indefinetly without any charges, you'll have some time to think and maybe change your mind about the ACLU. Nixon.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Aa--mmmmm....you might want to come up with somemore, because this one is not what I call defending citizens by the ACLU!That is because you are ignorant. This is how that ACLU operates in many cases. There are numerous lawyers who are affiliated with or support the ACLU who are called on to help on a pro bono basis. I actually helped a Dallas attorney on a cyberslapp case that involved some corporarte issues because I was asked.

Since wabby did not like that example, I will be glad to provide another one. http://www.laaclu.org/News/2006/Crayton_102706.htmNATCHITOCHES, LA--Today the American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana filed a lawsuit on behalf of a lone protestor who was denied his free expression rights by the City of Natchitoches. Edwin Crayton, a devout Christian, sought to stand in front of Wal-Mart in Natchitoches with a sign protesting Wal-Mart's alleged position on gay marriage.

"Government violates the principles in the First Amendment when it puts an overbroad permit scheme in place to restrain free speech in a public place," according to Joe Cook, Executive Director, ACLU of Louisiana. "The sweep of the ordinance is so wide that it could encompass a chance meeting on the street corner by two strangers."

Mr. Crayton peacefully picketed for about 40 minutes on a public sidewalk with a sign that said "Christians: Wal-Mart Supports Gay Lifestyles And Marriage. Don't Shop There." Then, he was approached by a Natchitoches police officer who refused to allow him to continue without obtaining a permit from the City. Mr. Crayton received permission from the chief of police to hold an "open air meeting," but he also needed permission of the Mayor. Despite the passage of several weeks since his application, the Mayor has still failed to approve Mr. Crayton's request.

"The right to be heard on matters of religious and political significance is at the core of our constitutional system," said Katie Schwartzmann, Staff Attorney for the ACLU of Louisiana. "The City of Natchitoches has effectively silenced Mr. Crayton on what for him is an important religious issue, and this type of government censorship cannot stand unchallenged."

The lawsuit contests not only the application of the permit requirements to Mr. Crayton, but also asks that the court declare the permit requirements unconstitutional as to anyone. The Natchitoches City Code completely forbids any public gathering, but provides exceptions for parades, or for an "open air meeting" where one has a permit for same. This example should warm wabby's heart because the ACLU defended the right of a christian homophobe to protest gay marriage. Again, the First Amendment is the ACLU's only client and here the ACLU defended this good christian even though his message was wrong.

[issac the dragon]

Those who are supporters of the ACLU have known this all along. Those who are rabid haters of the ACCLU have also known it, but they don't care about the truth. They never have.

[Wabash]

Hey Wabs- When the government gets info that implicates YOU, and holds you indefinetly without any charges, you'll have some time to think and maybe change your mind about the ACLU. Nixon.
Pipe Dreams nix...pipe dreams...do u spend lots of time at Fantasyland?

That is because you are ignorant. This is how that ACLU operates in many cases. There are numerous lawyers who are affiliated with or support the ACLU who are called on to help on a pro bono basis. I actually helped a Dallas attorney on a cyberslapp case that involved some corporarte issues because I was asked.

Since wabby did not like that example, I will be glad to provide another one. http://www.laaclu.org/News/2006/Crayton_102706.htmThis example should warm wabby's heart because the ACLU defended the right of a christian homophobe to protest gay marriage. Again, the First Amendment is the ACLU's only client and here the ACLU defended this good christian even though his message was wrong.

Nothing wrong at all with that message....I boycott all kinds of places that cater to queers...including Ford, WalMart and many otehrs..
Definition of homophobia:
a phobia about homosexuals….It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for—home and family. It was a religious fear and it had led to great brutality as fear always does.
I don't agree with this at all...I have no fear of homo sexuals any more than I have of sexual predators...they are detrimental to society, one is a criminal the other is counter to good family values and Christian morals!
However, doggies example is a good one.....
Now...tell me doggie, since you are so vested in the group...what exact % of Pro Christian cases do they handle? .09 of 1%? .05, .01, .001?

[Yellowdogtexan]

Here is another fun example of the ACLU representing a christian. http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/23445prs20060112.htmlPROVIDENCE, RI -- The American Civil Liberties Union of Rhode Island announced today that it has filed an appeal in federal court on behalf of a Christian prisoner who was barred from preaching during religious services at the state prison.

Wesley Spratt had been preaching during Christian services for seven years at the Adult Correctional Institutions (ACI) until 2003, when a new warden unilaterally stopped him from doing so based on vague and generalized "security" concerns. In its appeal, the ACLU argues that the preaching ban violates a federal law known as RLUIPA, which was designed to protect the religious freedom of institutionalized persons.

"RLUIPA is an important federal law that was designed to protect the religious freedom of people like Wesley Spratt," said ACLU cooperating attorney Carly Beauvais Iafrate. "That law is undermined if courts give uncritical deference to prison officials in denying inmates the right to practice their religion."

Spratt, who considers his preaching a "calling" from God, had been preaching at religious services on a weekly basis under the supervision, and with the support, of clergy at the ACI. The Department of Corrections provided no evidence of security problems during, or as the result of, his supervised preaching during the seven years he had been doing so. Nonetheless, when the new warden took over, Spratt was ordered to stop preaching.

In November, U.S. Magistrate Judge Jacob Hagopian upheld the ban. Notwithstanding the lack of any security problems in the years Spratt had been preaching, Judge Hagopian ruled that he would "defer" to the warden's judgment that there was no means to accommodate Spratt's preaching while maintaining institutional security.

In taking over Spratt's appeal, the ACLU argued that prison officials failed to meet the standards of the federal religious freedom law by not protecting the exercise of religious beliefs by prisoners. The law bars states from imposing any substantial burden on an inmate's exercise of religion unless it furthers a compelling interest and is the least restrictive means available.

Regarding the "least restrictive means" standard, the ACLU brief notes that, unlike a ban, "supervised preaching that existed in an unremarkable way for seven years" was clearly the least restrictive means available to prison officials. The brief points out that supervised preaching is also the method used in federal prisons to accommodate inmates' exercise of religion.

[Yellowdogtexan]

This is fun. Here is an example from wabby's neck of the woods. http://web.archive.org/web/20050308170613/http:/www.aclu-wa.org/Issues/freespeech/News-SpokTransit.htmlThe American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Center for Justice (CFJ) have reached an agreement with the Spokane Transit Authority to protect freedom of speech at the Plaza in downtown Spokane. The agreement settles a lawsuit challenging restrictions on free speech at Plaza sidewalks that the groups filed on behalf of Donald Ausderau, a Christian minister, and the Peace and Justice Action League of Spokane. The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Spokane in June 2003.

?Public sidewalks have traditionally served as public forums for free speech. People who wish to exercise their rights will now be able to do so without having to get the government?s permission beforehand,? said ACLU staff attorney Aaron Caplan.

?The Plaza sidewalks are a central gathering point for the Spokane community. We are pleased that the Spokane Transit Authority has revised its policies to ensure an open forum for dialogue by citizens and community groups. We appreciate the Authority?s willingness to reach a constructive agreement that recognizes the importance of free speech while honoring the Authority?s mission to serve public transportation needs,? said CFJ attorney David Blair-Loy.

The settlement allows speakers, leafleters, musicians, and other people who ordinarily use city sidewalks without a permit to use Plaza sidewalks without a permit, too. Their activities will not be limited to any particular time period. Previously, the Transit Authority required anyone who wanted to engage in a ?public communication activity? on the sidewalk outside the Plaza building to get a permit in advance, and the permit was good for a maximum of five hours a week. The settlement narrows the policy?s application to persons or groups who set up a table, chairs, or similar apparatus. Under the settlement, the Authority may require speakers to stay 10 feet away from bus exits and from passengers standing in line for a bus or waiting on a bench, unless the speaker is invited to come closer.

Donald Ausderau is a Spokane resident and minister who wishes to speak to the public about religious and social issues on the public sidewalk outside the Plaza. The Peace and Justice Action League of Spokane is a nonprofit membership organization devoted to involving individuals and local communities in building the foundations for a just and nonviolent world. The group seeks to hand out leaflets and gather signatures about political and social issues on the sidewalk outside the Plaza.