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waterdog
12-19-2007, 05:01 AM
I ran across this interesting article in the Tennessean newspaper in the Saturday edition. I only included parts of the article here.

Christmas wasn't always Christian
Most U.S. churches rejected holiday on biblical grounds

By TOM BREEN
Associated Press

As Christmas draws near, pastor John Foster won't be decorating a tree, shopping for last-minute gifts or working on a holiday sermon for his flock. After all, it's been 50 years since Christmas was anything more than a day of the week to him.

He's one of very few American Christians who follow what used to be the norm in Protestant denominations — rejecting celebration of Christmas on religious grounds.

His church's objection is rare among U.S. Christians. Gallup polls from 1994 to 2005 consistently show more than 90 percent of adults celebrate Christmas, including 84 percent of non-Christians.

................

That's a huge change from an earlier era, when many Protestants ignored or opposed the holiday. But as it gradually became popular as a family celebration, churches followed their members.

The change didn't happen overnight. Through much of the 19th century, schools and businesses remained open, Congress met, and some churches closed their doors, lest errant worshippers try to commemorate the day.

"The whole culture didn't stop for Christmas,'' said Bruce Forbes, a religious studies professor at Morningside College in Sioux City, Iowa. "Government went on as usual, business went on as usual, school went on as usual.''

.............

Holiday banned in Boston

That rejection was rooted in the lack of biblical sanction for Dec. 25 as the date of Jesus' birth, and suspicion toward traditions that developed after the earliest days of Christianity.

In Colonial New England, this disapproval extended to actually making the holiday illegal, with celebration punishable by a fine.

.......

"In America, the saying is that the minister follows the people, the people don't follow the minister,'' Restad said. "This was more of a sociological change than a religious one. The home and the marketplace had more sway than the church.''

That's partly why Christians like the United Church of God reject the holiday: They say divine instruction, rather than culture and society, should determine whether the holiday is appropriate.

Link to article:
http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071215/NEWS06/712150351/1023



First off, I am very surprised to hear that Christians did not support celebrating this holiday in times past, or that the United Church of God still rejects the holiday now. I've always heard how this is a "Christian Holiday" and that Christians are upset about non-Christians trying to take God and Jesus out of the Holiday.

It appears from this article that Christians were late in coming to the party and accepting the holiday. :think


Second, I feel very sad for this man, pastor John Foster, who has not celebrated Christmas since he was 8 years old. Quite sad indeed.

Sweet Tart
12-19-2007, 07:07 AM
Since it was stolen from the pagan festivals, I can see why it shouldn't be celebrated by the christians :shrug

Oceanbreeze
12-19-2007, 08:29 AM
Tart; True about the Pagans. I have a couple of Wiccan friends, they always get a good laugh at the "Christians" during the holidays.

Anyway, Christmas is so commericialized it has lost it's meaning anyway. My agnostic sister, who is going on vacation with us next week, called and asked what we were getting the kids for Christmas.

OB: "Hawaii"
Sister: "you're kidding, you're not getting them any presents?"
OB: "None from us, but Santa will come. If they don't believe they don't receive". :lmao

So, we're aren't getting them any Christmas presents from US. Last year, same deal, we went to Disneyland.

patriotsblade
12-19-2007, 09:28 AM
Here in Norway, Christmas is call Jul, pronounced Yule.

In many pagan religions (including Wicca) the holiday celebrated at this time of year is called Yule. When people ask me about my religious beliefs here it can lead to a bit of confusion because they learn that I am not Christian but I indeed celebrate Yule. :think

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

Wabash
12-19-2007, 03:35 PM
I ran across this interesting article in the Tennessean newspaper in the Saturday edition. I only included parts of the article here.




First off, I am very surprised to hear that Christians did not support celebrating this holiday in times past, or that the United Church of God still rejects the holiday now. I've always heard how this is a "Christian Holiday" and that Christians are upset about non-Christians trying to take God and Jesus out of the Holiday.

It appears from this article that Christians were late in coming to the party and accepting the holiday. :think


Second, I feel very sad for this man, pastor John Foster, who has not celebrated Christmas since he was 8 years old. Quite sad indeed.

Christmas is about celebrating the Birth of Jesus. I was raised Catholic, I'm still Catholic and I celebrate Christmas for that reason only! I don't know, nor care what the pagans have done or do now.

Wabash
12-19-2007, 03:37 PM
Tart; True about the Pagans. I have a couple of Wiccan friends, they always get a good laugh at the "Christians" during the holidays.

Anyway, Christmas is so commericialized it has lost it's meaning anyway. My agnostic sister, who is going on vacation with us next week, called and asked what we were getting the kids for Christmas.

OB: "Hawaii"
Sister: "you're kidding, you're not getting them any presents?"
OB: "None from us, but Santa will come. If they don't believe they don't receive". :lmao

So, we're aren't getting them any Christmas presents from US. Last year, same deal, we went to Disneyland.

We always just stayed home an exchanged gifts with the kids and enjoyed our family time together...

Deadshot
12-19-2007, 03:37 PM
You do realize though, and I was born and raised Catholic too, that the Church pegged the holiday to the Pagan ritual, right?

I mean Christ was probably born in the Spring, as most scholars - even theologians - believe.

Wabash
12-19-2007, 04:05 PM
You do realize though, and I was born and raised Catholic too, that the Church pegged the holiday to the Pagan ritual, right?

I mean Christ was probably born in the Spring, as most scholars - even theologians - believe.

No...I didn't know you were Catholic. Why would they think that he was born in the Spring rather than any other time?

Wabash
12-19-2007, 04:06 PM
Merry Christmas Everyone!


http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x77/watermelon039/BabyJesus.gif

MW
12-19-2007, 04:31 PM
1) Christ was more than likely born in the fall - AFTER the harvest was in - how else would everyone be able to pay their taxes.

2) If John Foster doesn't celebrate Christmas, does he also go to church on Saturday? Saturday is the true Sabbath - Christians changed it to Sunday.

Wabash
12-19-2007, 04:49 PM
For all my Pagan friends....

Fleas Navidog

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x77/watermelon039/FleasNavidog.jpg

issac the dragon
12-19-2007, 06:15 PM
I think it was a mistake for Christians to try to make the winter soltice into a celebration of Jesus birth. It dosen't fit, and just gives them fits. Now they are in the position of trying to defend the error.

My sister and BIL were members of the WWC and they did accept Christmas gifts. They just wouldn't give them. They are the dinner too. I thought they were awful hypocrites.

crazierthanever
12-19-2007, 10:27 PM
My pagan pals and I will celebrate the winter solstice with food, fun and festivities for the children. We do the Christmas thing with the family but we don't believe Jesus was born on December 25. I respect everyone's belief system as long as they don't try to tell me I'm gonna burn in hell. Then I get grouchy.

cassandra
12-19-2007, 10:40 PM
Whether or not it is the exact day that Jesus was born into the world makes no difference to me. I celebrate and honor it on that day.

waterdog
12-20-2007, 01:11 AM
Whether or not it is the exact day that Jesus was born into the world makes no difference to me. I celebrate and honor it on that day.

:theman Exactly Sandi! Excellent.

Trueblue
12-20-2007, 04:58 PM
It's a festival to celebrate giving and plenty, and Jesus came that we might have life, and have it more abundantly.

kaaryn
12-21-2007, 05:50 PM
I don't think it makes a difference when He was born, it is just a date chosen to honor His birth. If someone else has another occasion they want to celebrate, then have at it - we can all be happy and jolly together on our own special days. I won't harass you for your Menorah or your Kwanzaa table, you don't hassle me about my Christmas tree, and we'll let the malls go crazy promoting every imagined holiday and leave all of us joyfully broke together. :lol

Trueblue
12-21-2007, 07:45 PM
Well said. :D

issac the dragon
12-21-2007, 08:36 PM
The only thing that bothers me about Christmas is people like my two oldest friends who insist that Jesus was born on December 25, 0. I am sure that they consider anyone who disagrees with that to be doomed to hell. I like them anyway, but I'm easy. I like most people.

Wabash
12-22-2007, 06:06 PM
I think it was a mistake for Christians to try to make the winter soltice into a celebration of Jesus birth. It dosen't fit, and just gives them fits. Now they are in the position of trying to defend the error.

My sister and BIL were members of the WWC and they did accept Christmas gifts. They just wouldn't give them. They are the dinner too. I thought they were awful hypocrites.
Ya know, it's been that way for the nearly 60 years that I have been alive and many decades before that...I'm fine with it...much to do about nothing these days!....

patriotsblade
12-22-2007, 08:17 PM
Even though I don't share the same belief about Jesus as Christians do I am all for celebrating his birth and life because I believe in the message he left.