View Full Version : JESUS: RICH OR POOR?
issac the dragon
11-30-2007, 01:31 PM
Seeing as how different churches teach different things, I was curious about what the people on this board think. Was Jesus a poor preacher, living in the hills in a cave, or was he the coddled favorite of rich patrons, living much better than most of his followers? I am trying to stir something up here. It is kinda boring.
Trueblue
11-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Jesus was homeless, he was an itinerant rabbi who lived on donations. The money for Jesus and the disciples was apparently held communally.
Not only that, a large part, possibly the largest part, of his message was about social justice.
crazierthanever
11-30-2007, 06:46 PM
Jesus was homeless, he was an itinerant rabbi who lived on donations. The money for Jesus and the disciples was apparently held communally.
Not only that, a large part, possibly the largest part, of his message was about social justice.
Yep, Jesus was a commie!
sparks
11-30-2007, 06:49 PM
Jesus was homeless, he was an itinerant rabbi who lived on donations. The money for Jesus and the disciples was apparently held communally.
Not only that, a large part, possibly the largest part, of his message was about social justice.
Definitely a Democrat! :)
No a commie is someone that believes that the government should control all and that it is the governments job to make everything "fair".
Jesus NEVER said the government should do that, Jesus' message was that we (the people) should (of our own free will) take care of those that are less fortunate then us.
Definitely a Democrat! :)
Wrong there to. Jesus would be disgusted with both parties. :D
To try and say Jesus was of either party takes away from what he is.
sparks
11-30-2007, 06:53 PM
Wrong there to. Jesus would be disgusted with both parties. :D
To try and say Jesus was of either party takes away from what he is.
Which would actually be "a rebel". :)
Which would actually be "a rebel". :)
Jesus was a rebel alright. The original James Dean :D
sparks
11-30-2007, 06:57 PM
Jesus was a rebel alright. The original James Dean :D
I like that about him...always bucking the system. :)
http://www.a1christiantshirts.com/images/Christian_TShirts_Life_Signs_Rebel.jpg
toxic
11-30-2007, 07:32 PM
No a commie is someone that believes that the government should control all and that it is the governments job to make everything "fair".
Jesus NEVER said the government should do that, Jesus' message was that we (the people) should (of our own free will) take care of those that are less fortunate then us.
No, in around 1850, Communists said FREE TRADE was taking the jobs of European (today American) craftsmen and sending them to black slaves in the (USA), penal colony slaves (Australia) and economic slaves (China).
They argued that the Bourgeois (Bushies) were too selfishly motivated to be trusted to manage businesses for the good of all people.
So nothing has changed in 150 years, except now the church go'ers support the ruling class, rather than the working class and poor. Instead of helping the poor, the church go'ers reticule them and support greed and selfishness as though is is god's will. :rofl
Trueblue
11-30-2007, 07:35 PM
No, in around 1850, Communists said FREE TRADE was taking the jobs of European (today American) craftsmen and sending them to black slaves in the (USA), penal colony slaves (Australia) and economic slaves (China).
They argued that the Bourgeois (Bushies) were too selfishly motivated to be trusted to manage businesses for the good of all people.
So nothing has changed in 150 years, except now the church go'ers support the ruling class, rather than the working class and poor. Instead of helping the poor, the church go'ers reticule them and support greed and selfishness as though is is god's will. :rofl
Yeah, how did they do that? :no
kaaryn
11-30-2007, 08:25 PM
I think He was middle class. He had a trade, He was a trained carpenter, and had worked with Joseph. His disciples all had trades as well when they started out. When His ministry went full-time then He was supported by His followers.
April15
11-30-2007, 09:03 PM
I have it on good authority that Jesus was what today would be called a traitor/unpatriotic to Rome/USA. His actions at the time were totally contrary to accepted mores and morals of the times.
His desire to share is most commonly associated politically with a communal society where each helps the other. True communism, not what the world knows as communism.
crazierthanever
11-30-2007, 11:13 PM
I have it on good authority that Jesus was what today would be called a traitor/unpatriotic to Rome/USA. His actions at the time were totally contrary to accepted mores and morals of the times.
His desire to share is most commonly associated politically with a communal society where each helps the other. True communism, not what the world knows as communism.
:theman That's what I said except no one 'cept you understood. Thanks for making it clear to others. :theman
He wasn't white, didn't have blonde or light brown hair and didn't have blue eyes.
sparks
11-30-2007, 11:25 PM
:theman That's what I said except no one 'cept you understood. Thanks for making it clear to others. :theman
He wasn't white, didn't have blonde or light brown hair and didn't have blue eyes.
And he wasn't an Israelite either...he was a Palestinian.
Yep, even in Jesus's day those Palestinians were causing trouble and stirring the shit! :lol
issac the dragon
11-30-2007, 11:50 PM
Interesting Sparks. But the Palenstinian problem is fraught with religious differences. Jesus was a Jew. There were no Muslims. And you can't separate the 'Palenstenian problem' from the Jewish and Muslim problem. Jesus was simply a Jew who lived outside of Israel.
No, in around 1850, Communists said FREE TRADE was taking the jobs of European (today American) craftsmen and sending them to black slaves in the (USA), penal colony slaves (Australia) and economic slaves (China).
They argued that the Bourgeois (Bushies) were too selfishly motivated to be trusted to manage businesses for the good of all people.
So nothing has changed in 150 years, except now the church go'ers support the ruling class, rather than the working class and poor. Instead of helping the poor, the church go'ers reticule them and support greed and selfishness as though is is god's will. :rofl
Well Jesus never said anything about free trade at alll. He also did not say to distribute wealt equally.
There are plenty of church goers and churches that support the poor and needy, that do not ridicule them and do not believe in greed.
Trueblue
12-01-2007, 12:04 PM
Well Jesus never said anything about free trade at alll. He also did not say to distribute wealt equally.
There are plenty of church goers and churches that support the poor and needy, that do not ridicule them and do not believe in greed.
But the area He came from, Galilee, was being economically exploited by Rome during the time of His ministry. A lot of the message was quite political.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/galilee.html
Jesus message was not political. It was personable. There are a few parts that deal with governemnt but not a lot.
Trueblue
12-01-2007, 12:13 PM
Jesus message was not political. It was personable. There are a few parts that deal with governemnt but not a lot.
I completely disagree. It was very much both. And one statement about "rendering unto Caesar" doesn't change that. This was a message about social justice AND about personal holiness.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/galilee.html
John Dominick Crosson is a very good source on the historical context of the message.
issac the dragon
12-01-2007, 12:21 PM
He was definitively a radical. The religion he taught is impractical to say the least. Give all your money to the poor and follow him. What would the world be like if people did that?
While I don't believe the man ever lived, the story is a nice one. A selfless humanitarian. Unfortunately, IMO, the Christian religion is not about Jesus, but about the message that Paul taught. And he was a pathetic nut case of the first order.
Before you disagree with me, I want all of you who are, or ever have lived with your spouse without having sex to tell me all about it.
Trueblue
12-01-2007, 12:28 PM
He was definitively a radical. The religion he taught is impractical to say the least. Give all your money to the poor and follow him. What would the world be like if people did that?
While I don't believe the man ever lived, the story is a nice one. A selfless humanitarian. Unfortunately, IMO, the Christian religion is not about Jesus, but about the message that Paul taught. And he was a pathetic nut case of the first order.
Before you disagree with me, I want all of you who are, or ever have lived with your spouse without having sex to tell me all about it.
Issac, most historians agree that Jesus was a real person who really lived.
He was definitively a radical. The religion he taught is impractical to say the least. Give all your money to the poor and follow him. What would the world be like if people did that?
While I don't believe the man ever lived, the story is a nice one. A selfless humanitarian. Unfortunately, IMO, the Christian religion is not about Jesus, but about the message that Paul taught. And he was a pathetic nut case of the first order.
Before you disagree with me, I want all of you who are, or ever have lived with your spouse without having sex to tell me all about it.
Paul taught the message of Jesus.
Christians are not perfect (that is what we are supposed to srtive for) and can make mistakes and sin.
I completely disagree. It was very much both. And one statement about "rendering unto Caesar" doesn't change that. This was a message about social justice AND about personal holiness.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/portrait/galilee.html
John Dominick Crosson is a very good source on the historical context of the message.
Sorry but I disagree, his message was one af personal salvation and of people willingly helping others. Not being forced into it by governemnts. Jesus stayed for the most part out of politics and the commenting of government.
His message what that we as individuals should help those less fortunate then us and that is by our individual free will that we can come to him to be saved. Neither can or should be forced upon us.
Trueblue
12-01-2007, 03:22 PM
Sorry but I disagree, his message was one af personal salvation and of people willingly helping others. Not being forced into it by governemnts. Jesus stayed for the most part out of politics and the commenting of government.
His message what that we as individuals should help those less fortunate then us and that is by our individual free will that we can come to him to be saved. Neither can or should be forced upon us.
I don't know who it is that you disagree with, cause I never said or implied that Jesus said that the government should FORCE anybody to do anything. I said that much of his message was political.
That is what I disagree with.
The rest was just filler.
April15
12-01-2007, 06:06 PM
Paul taught the message of Jesus.
Christians are not perfect (that is what we are supposed to srtive for) and can make mistakes and sin.Well criminy sakes I'm not a Christian and have made no sins or mistakes so why can't those who practice the religion? Just so that you know I am not perfect but God only knows how close I am.
Wanna bet you don't sin or make mistakes? :D
April15
12-01-2007, 08:32 PM
Wanna bet you don't sin or make mistakes? :D
I don't bet so I can not partake of your wager.
Trueblue
12-01-2007, 09:54 PM
That is what I disagree with.
The rest was just filler.
No, the rest just took my statement somewhere of your own choosing. :lol
The historical context is important, IMO, to understand the message.
crazierthanever
12-01-2007, 11:00 PM
I don't bet so I can not partake of your wager.
Isn't betting a sin anyway? :theman
No, the rest just took my statement somewhere of your own choosing. :lol
The historical context is important, IMO, to understand the message.
Not arguing historical context. Historical context also does not say Jesus's message was a political one.
Isn't betting a sin anyway? :theman
Yes it was a trap and April knew it. :D
Trueblue
12-02-2007, 07:57 AM
Not arguing historical context. Historical context also does not say Jesus's message was a political one.
Do tell. Guess I've been wasting my time in class. :D
I don't mean politics in the narrow sense, Dem vs Pub, Labor vs. Conservative. I mean in the broad sense of what it means to have a just society. Jesus' message is hugely political, in that sense.
crazierthanever
12-02-2007, 10:04 AM
Do tell. Guess I've been wasting my time in class. :D
I don't mean politics in the narrow sense, Dem vs Pub, Labor vs. Conservative. I mean in the broad sense of what it means to have a just society. Jesus' message is hugely political, in that sense.
:paclap:paclap
April15
12-02-2007, 01:16 PM
Isn't betting a sin anyway? :themanWhether it is or isn't makes no difference to me. I do not gamble. Nor do I smoke or use alcohol. I do enjoy all the earth has to offer in its natural state and wonder.
Do tell. Guess I've been wasting my time in class. :D
I don't mean politics in the narrow sense, Dem vs Pub, Labor vs. Conservative. I mean in the broad sense of what it means to have a just society. Jesus' message is hugely political, in that sense.
I disagree his message was a social one.
sparks
12-03-2007, 12:11 AM
I drink, smoke and have sex as little as possible because I'm too fertile. And every marriage was a gamble. :roll
That's why God made birth control woman! :rofl
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