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Saguaro
11-20-2007, 11:15 PM
CNN) -- The Saudi Justice Ministry Tuesday issued a "clarification" of a court's handling of a rape case and the increased punishment -- including 200 lashes --meted out to the victim.


Human rights groups want Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah to drop charges against the rape victim.

The case, which has sparked media scrutiny of the Saudi legal system, centers on a married woman. The 19-year-old and an unrelated man were abducted, and she was raped by a group of seven men more than a year ago, according to Abdulrahman al-Lahim, the attorney who represented her in court.

The woman was originally sentenced in October 2006 to 90 lashes. But that sentence was more than doubled to 200 lashes and six months in prison by the Qatif General Court, because she spoke to the media about the case, a court source told Middle Eastern daily newspaper Arab News.

Al-Lahim told CNN his law license was revoked last week by a judge because he spoke to the Saudi-controlled media about the case.

In a statement issued to CNN, Saudi Ambassador to the United States, Adel al-Jubeir said, "This case is working its way through the legal process. I have no doubt that justice will prevail."

The Justice Ministry acknowledged in its statement Tuesday that the attorney is no longer on the case, saying he was punished by a disciplinary committee for lawyers because he "exhibited disrespectful behavior toward the court, objected to the rule of law and showed ignorance concerning court instructions and regulations."

It added that the permanent committee of the Supreme Judicial Council recommended an increased sentence for the woman after further evidence against her came to light when she appealed her original sentence.

The judges of that committee also increased the sentences for the perpetrators based on the level of their involvement in the crime. Their sentences -- which had been two to three years in prison -- were increased to two to nine years, according to al-Lahim.

The ministry also said it welcomes constructive criticism and insisted that the parties' rights were preserved in the judicial process.

"We would like to state that the system has ensured them the right to object to the ruling and to request an appeal," the statement continued, "without resorting to sensationalism through the media that may not be fair or may not grant anyone any rights, and instead may negatively affect all the other parties involved in the case."

The statement also described the progress of the woman's case and explained that it was heard by a panel of three judges, not one judge "as mentioned in some media reports."

It said the case was treated normally through regular court procedures, and that the woman, her male companion and the perpetrators of the crime all agreed in court to the sentences handed down.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said U.S. officials had "expressed our astonishment" at the sentence, though not directly to Saudi officials. "It is within the power of the Saudi government to take a look at the verdict and change it," he added.

White House homeland security adviser Frances Townsend, who announced her resignation Monday, called the case "absolutely reprehensible" but told CNN's "American Morning" the Saudis deserve credit for their assistance in battling terrorism. "This case is separate and apart from that, and I just don't think there's any explaining it or justifying it," she added.

The case has sparked outrage among human rights groups.

"This is not just about the Qatif girl, it's about every woman in Saudi Arabia," said Fawzeyah al-Oyouni, founding member of the newly formed Saudi Association for the Defense of Women's Rights.

"We're fearing for our lives and the lives of our sisters and our daughters and every Saudi woman out there. We're afraid of going out in the streets.

"Barring the lawyer from representing the victim in court is almost equivalent to the rape crime itself," she added.

Human Rights Watch said it has called on Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah "to immediately void the verdict and drop all charges against the rape victim and to order the court to end its harassment of her lawyer."

The man and woman were attacked after they met in Qatif on the kingdom's Persian Gulf coast, so she could retrieve an old photograph of herself from him, according to al-Lahim. Citing phone records from the police investigation, al-Lahim said the man was trying to blackmail his client. He noted the photo she was trying to retrieve was harmless and did not show his client in any compromising position.

Al-Lahim said the man tried to blame his client for insisting on meeting him that day. It is illegal for a woman to meet with an unrelated male under Saudi's Islamic law.

Al-Lahim has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month, where he faces a possible three-year suspension and disbarment, according to Human Rights Watch.

He told CNN he has appealed to the Ministry of Justice to reinstate his law license and plans to meet with Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Ibrahim Al Al-Sheikh.

"Currently she doesn't have a lawyer, and I feel they're doing this to isolate her and deprive her from her basic rights," he said. "We will not accept this judgment and I'll do my best to continue representing her because justice needs to take place."

He said the handling of the case is a direct contradiction of judicial reforms announced by the Saudi king earlier this month.

"The Ministry of Justice needs to have a very clear standing regarding this case because I consider this decision to be judiciary mutiny against the reform that King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz started and against Saudi women who are being victimized because of such decisions," he said.

Under law in Saudi Arabia, women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote.

The Saudi government recently has taken some steps toward bettering the situation of women in the kingdom, including the establishment earlier this year of special courts to handle domestic abuse cases, adoption of a new labor law that addresses working women's rights and creation of a human rights commission.

The victim :http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/20/saudi.rape.victim/index.html#cnnSTCVideo


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/20/saudi.rape.victim/index.html

Semantics
11-20-2007, 11:23 PM
The Saudis are our friends. :cuckoo


Since we love them so much, I wonder why we didn't start the spread of freedom and democracy in their country? :think


In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said U.S. officials had "expressed our astonishment" at the sentence

Astonishment, huh?

This is typical of Saudi Arabia.

AYFR
11-21-2007, 05:18 AM
Typical of the Middle East

Yellowdogtexan
11-21-2007, 07:23 AM
The Saudis are our friends. :cuckoo Don't tell ringo. He thinks that only our enemies do stupid things like this and that our friends would never act this way

Trueblue
11-21-2007, 08:25 AM
I don't want to hear their stupid explanations. :mad

AYFR
11-21-2007, 03:30 PM
How in the world could anyone explain this anyway?

Kurtz
11-21-2007, 03:41 PM
ahem, religious beliefs.

AYFR
11-21-2007, 04:17 PM
ahem, religious beliefs.

Not working for me and you know how religious I am but for them to use that excuse is either bullshit OR shows that their religion really IS NOT one of peace.

Trueblue
11-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Not working for me and you know how religious I am but for them to use that excuse is either bullshit OR shows that their religion really IS NOT one of peace.

Their particular religion, perhaps, but let's not pretend that the Saudis represent all Muslims.

Kurtz
11-21-2007, 04:47 PM
Not working for me and you know how religious I am but for them to use that excuse is either bullshit OR shows that their religion really IS NOT one of peace.

Their particular religion, perhaps, but let's not pretend that the Saudis represent all Muslims.



Well, I will admit I don't know the particulars of some religions, however my passion is human
rights 'n this is just plain wrong to blame a victim for a crime of this nature based on any law.

I'm glad I'm an American and that's not a religion.

Trueblue
11-21-2007, 06:27 PM
Well, I will admit I don't know the particulars of some religions, however my passion is human
rights 'n this is just plain wrong to blame a victim for a crime of this nature based on any law.

I'm glad I'm an American and that's not a religion.

:)

issac the dragon
11-21-2007, 06:46 PM
When my 15 year old charged a man with rape, the DA said, "He raped you once, the state will rape you again and again." She was right.

In Portland,Ore., the police disregard 75% of all rapes, and down call rape victims back to try to prove the cases. They simply don't 'work' them.

Saudi Arabia is far worse than here, but we have nothing to brag about.

Now, why is the sucking piece of shit in the WH tolerating this? The governments disinterest is sleeze. Contemptable. Inexcusable.

Kurtz
11-21-2007, 06:57 PM
I'm hoping our government is showing concern in this particular instance since it is outrageous. And most times these kinda things are handled quietly...until a bunch of pissed off women get together and march on the halls of governments and then the changes come a li'l louder 'n quicker.

Cookie Parker
11-21-2007, 07:28 PM
How in the world could anyone explain this anyway?

You know, in all fairness, this is their country...this is their right to rule as they see fit...we can't be the police..we have religious nuts here wedding 13 year olds and telling married women if they don't go to bed with them they will not be right with god....

religious fanatacism is worldwide...and this is their country with their rules...we can't run the world..we can't even take care of the poor in ours..

AYFR
11-21-2007, 07:30 PM
You know, in all fairness, this is their country...this is their right to rule as they see fit...we can't be the police..we have religious nuts here wedding 13 year olds and telling married women if they don't go to bed with them they will not be right with god....

religious fanatacism is worldwide...and this is their country with their rules...we can't run the world..we can't even take care of the poor in ours..
Never said we could change it or do anything about it but to not at least try and do something is the came thing as condoning it.

Kurtz
11-21-2007, 08:06 PM
You know, in all fairness, this is their country...this is their right to rule as they see fit...we can't be the police..we have religious nuts here wedding 13 year olds and telling married women if they don't go to bed with them they will not be right with god....

religious fanatacism is worldwide...and this is their country with their rules...we can't run the world..we can't even take care of the poor in ours..

That's why we have http://www.hrw.org/

Trueblue
11-21-2007, 08:38 PM
You know, in all fairness, this is their country...this is their right to rule as they see fit...we can't be the police..we have religious nuts here wedding 13 year olds and telling married women if they don't go to bed with them they will not be right with god....

religious fanatacism is worldwide...and this is their country with their rules...we can't run the world..we can't even take care of the poor in ours..

Our country can let them know how we feel about it. Diplomatic pressure can change things.

Yellowdogtexan
11-22-2007, 04:34 PM
I'm hoping our government is showing concern in this particular instance since it is outrageous. .You got to be kidding. The bushies have their heads so far up the saudis' ass that they would never dare comment on this. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/21/saudi-rape-victim/In his second inaugural address, President Bush stridently declared that his administration would not compromise on its demand for basic human rights:We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation: The moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. America will not pretend…that women welcome humiliation and servitude.Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice referred to these goals as the “non-negotiable demands of human dignity.” But a recent Saudi court decision has shown the administration very willing to fold when this rhetoric is tested.

A week ago, a Saudi appeals court increased the punishment for the female victim of a gang rape. The woman, who had been appealing her original sentence of 90 lashes, was sentenced to six months in prison and 200 lashes after her appeal.

The Saudi judges more than doubled the punishment for the victim because of “her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.” The Saudi Justice Ministry confirmed that the stiffer sentence handed out on appeal stemmed from the fact that the victim had gone to the media with her story. “Media may have adverse effects on the other parties involved in the case,” a statement said.

Asked to offer the administration’s position on the court ruling, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said on Monday that the administration was “astonished,” but had “nothing else to offer“:QUESTION: A very quick question also from this morning. Your comment, please, on — in reaction to the young Saudi woman having her sentence more than doubled the –

MR. MCCORMACK: Right, yeah. I saw the news reports and I guess the first thing to say is, while this is a judicial procedure, part of a judicial procedure overseas in the courts of a sovereign country, that said, I think that most would find this relatively astonishing that something like this happened. So while it’s very difficult to offer — you know, offer any detailed comment about the situation, I think most people would really be quite astonished by the situation.

QUESTION: Would you like the Saudi authorities to reconsider it or do you encourage them to do that?

MR. MCCORMACK: Look, you know, again, I can’t get involved in specific court cases in Saudi Arabia dealing with its own citizens, but most — I think most people here would be quite surprised to learn of the circumstances and then the punishment meted out.

QUESTION: Does that mean that the State Department is astonished by it, too?

MR. MCCORMACK: I’ll leave the answer where it –

QUESTION: Well, what does “most people” mean? I mean, most of who?

MR. MCCORMACK: I would just leave — I don’t have anything else to offer.

Yesterday, McCormack was asked if the administration’s silence was “driven by a desire not to offend Saudi Arabia as a close ally.” “No, it’s — no, that’s not it at all,” he claimed, but then acknowledged the administration has yet to convey its “astonishment” directly to the Saudis. “I am not aware of any direct contact with the Saudis on this issue,” he said.
Apparently, there is some negotiability in Bush’s demands for human freedom.

Yellowdogtexan
11-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Here is the statement of John Edwards on this travesty of justice. http://johnedwards.com/news/press-releases/20071121-saudi-rape-victim/Chapel Hill, North Carolina – Today, Senator John Edwards released the following statement:

“Today’s news that a Saudi Arabian court has chosen to punish the victim of a gang rape is an appalling breach of the most fundamental human rights. I am outraged that President Bush has refused to condemn the sentence. We need a president who will reengage with the world and restore our moral authority - only then will we be able to lead other nations in protecting the basic rights and human dignity of every person on this planet.”

Kurtz
11-22-2007, 04:43 PM
:yep
No doubt about it, Edwards would be a better leader than bush!

Thanks for diggin' up further documentation on this for us, YDT. :thumbsup

issac the dragon
11-22-2007, 06:20 PM
Bush Administration Refuses To Condemn Saudi Court’s Punishment Of Gang Rape Victim
In his second inaugural address, President Bush stridently declared that his administration would not compromise on its demand for basic human rights:

We will persistently clarify the choice before every ruler and every nation: The moral choice between oppression, which is always wrong, and freedom, which is eternally right. America will not pretend…that women welcome humiliation and servitude.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice referred to these goals as the “non-negotiable demands of human dignity.” But a recent Saudi court decision has shown the administration very willing to fold when this rhetoric is tested.

A week ago, a Saudi appeals court increased the punishment for the female victim of a gang rape. The woman, who had been appealing her original sentence of 90 lashes, was sentenced to six months in prison and 200 lashes after her appeal.

The Saudi judges more than doubled the punishment for the victim because of “her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media.” The Saudi Justice Ministry confirmed that the stiffer sentence handed out on appeal stemmed from the fact that the victim had gone to the media with her story. “Media may have adverse effects on the other parties involved in the case,” a statement said.

Asked to offer the administration’s position on the court ruling, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said on Monday that the administration was “astonished,” but had “nothing else to offer“:

QUESTION: A very quick question also from this morning. Your comment, please, on — in reaction to the young Saudi woman having her sentence more than doubled the –

MR. MCCORMACK: Right, yeah. I saw the news reports and I guess the first thing to say is, while this is a judicial procedure, part of a judicial procedure overseas in the courts of a sovereign country, that said, I think that most would find this relatively astonishing that something like this happened. So while it’s very difficult to offer — you know, offer any detailed comment about the situation, I think most people would really be quite astonished by the situation.

QUESTION: Would you like the Saudi authorities to reconsider it or do you encourage them to do that?

MR. MCCORMACK: Look, you know, again, I can’t get involved in specific court cases in Saudi Arabia dealing with its own citizens, but most — I think most people here would be quite surprised to learn of the circumstances and then the punishment meted out.

QUESTION: Does that mean that the State Department is astonished by it, too?

MR. MCCORMACK: I’ll leave the answer where it –

QUESTION: Well, what does “most people” mean? I mean, most of who?

MR. MCCORMACK: I would just leave — I don’t have anything else to offer.

Yesterday, McCormack was asked if the administration’s silence was “driven by a desire not to offend Saudi Arabia as a close ally.” “No, it’s — no, that’s not it at all,” he claimed, but then acknowledged the administration has yet to convey its “astonishment” directly to the Saudis. “I am not aware of any direct contact with the Saudis on this issue,” he said.

Apparently, there is some negotiability in Bush’s demands for human freedom.

UPDATE: The Muslim American Society Freedom called the court ruling “a clear violation of the compassion and mercy taught by the religion of Islam.”

UPDATE II: Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) states, “I urge President Bush to call on King Abdullah to cancel the ruling and drop all charges against this woman.” In a letter to Condoleezza Rice, Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) wrote, “I strongly urge the Department of State to condemn this ruling.” Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) and John Edwards released statements expressing their outrage.thinkporgress.org