NY teen with hairbrush shot by police

[Saguaro]

NEW YORK - A teenager died in a hail of 20 bullets fired by police officers who thought he was holding a gun, authorities said Tuesday. The object turned out to be a hairbrush.

A 911 operator heard the teen yelling that he had a gun, police said.

But the case nonetheless evoked painful memories of previous police shootings: the November 2006, 50-bullet barrage that killed the unarmed Sean Bell on his wedding day, and the 1999 killing of unarmed African immigrant Amadou Diallo, who was hit by 19 of the 41 shots fired by police in the Bronx.

"The circumstances of how it occurred at this point is under investigation and you can rest assured that we will take this very seriously," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

Officers received the 911 call from the teen's mother around 7 p.m. Monday, police spokesman Paul Browne said. The 911 operator could hear the teen yelling in the background, claiming he had a gun, Browne said.

When officers arrived at the Brooklyn apartment building, they could see the 18-year-old, Khiel Coppin, pacing inside the first-floor apartment. His mother was outside.

The teen's mother had attempted to have him hospitalized earlier in the day, Browne said. He said the teen had a history of mental illness.

The teen began screaming from a window at his mother and officers before climbing out of the window and heading toward the officers holding a black object in his hand, police said.

The officers ordered him to stop, Browne said. When the teen refused and kept approaching them, they opened fire, he said.

Police said it was not immediately known how many of the 20 bullets struck Coppin, who was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Investigators later discovered the object the teen was holding was a hairbrush, Browne said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071113/ap_on_re_us/police_teen_shot;_ylt=Ar2i1XVjxNpEi3_gDzhd.zVvzwcF

[Wabash]

Sounds like a good shoot to me.......

[Saguaro]

Wabash, that is disgusting

[Wabash]

Wabash, that is disgusting

Well, you see Sag...your story didn't present all the facts.....the kid, according to ABC News, had a black hair dryer in his hand...that would look like a gun to most folks from a distance or in the dark. Since the kid said he had a gun, those two facts add up to a safety issue for the officers. You don't wait for them to shoot first, if you think it is a gun. The kid was real stupid and it cost him.

[toxic]

Well, you see Sag...your story didn't present all the facts.....the kid, according to ABC News, had a black hair dryer in his hand...that would look like a gun to most folks from a distance or in the dark. Since the kid said he had a gun, those two facts add up to a safety issue for the officers. You don't wait for them to shoot first, if you think it is a gun. The kid was real stupid and it cost him.

Wabby, you know the police are paranoid psychotics that like to escalate the threat.

Local police here shot a retarded 15 year old at a community home, who was holding sissors (probably rounded nose) 25 feet away from the cop.

The cop said the kid lunged at him. Thos words are getting too familar.

[Kurtz]

Wabby, you know the police are paranoid psychotics that like to escalate the threat.

Local police here shot a retarded 15 year old at a community home, who was holding sissors (probably rounded nose) 25 feet away from the cop.

The cop said the kid lunged at him. Thos words are getting too familar.

:yep
Here's the research if anyone cares:

THE OUTSIDERS: STUDIES IN THE SOCIOLOGY OF DEVIANCE (New York: Free Press, 1963)
Howard S. Becker.
Good read. :theman

[Wabash]

Wabby, you know the police are paranoid psychotics that like to escalate the threat.

Local police here shot a retarded 15 year old at a community home, who was holding sissors (probably rounded nose) 25 feet away from the cop.

The cop said the kid lunged at him. Thos words are getting too familar.

Tell me tox, have you been on the streets and done this job?

[cassandra]

I think Wabash is right. The boy was treating the hairdryer as a weapon. I have to think 20 bullets could have been a bit much but they can't wait to see if it is a hairdryer or a gun with or without bullets.

[Wabash]

I think Wabash is right. The boy was treating the hairdryer as a weapon. I have to think 20 bullets could have been a bit much but they can't wait to see if it is a hairdryer or a gun with or without bullets.

We train officers to keep firing until the threat has ceased.....not everyone just falls over like on TV or the movies.....especially those on some kind of drug, drunk or mentally ill.
For those keyboard warriors, the name of the game for the officer on the street is to finish your shift and be able to go home at the end of it...the officer has a fraction of a second to decide if the threat is real or not. Wrong decision, and you finish your shift in the hospital or a body bag....

Thanks for your support Cassandra!

[Wabash]

Wabby, you know the police are paranoid psychotics that like to escalate the threat.

Local police here shot a retarded 15 year old at a community home, who was holding sissors (probably rounded nose) 25 feet away from the cop.

The cop said the kid lunged at him. Thos words are getting too familar.

Nope...don't know that at all...I've worked with hundreds of LE Officers and trained about 150 how to shoot and shoot well, over the years. Either that was tongue in cheek or you are a cop hater as well as a hater of conservatives. Neither one would give you points as a compassionate liberal!

Of all those that I have known personally, I found ..maybe...one or two that I would have consider paranoid or psychotic.

[Kurtz]

And folks wonder why some other folks don't trust cops. :roll

Interestin' that some view "the boy was treating the hairdryer as a weapon" when the article stated "Investigators later discovered the object the teen was holding was a hairbrush." :whistle

And Wabby, I have been in many shoot situations, but havin' TRAINING at FLETC and a coupla other academies combined with EXPERIENCE, I know that cops that can't do the job should be removed from STREET DUTY and cops that over react ruin the morale of GOOD COPS who want to protect and serve the public. Good cops can distinguish the difference between a weapon and a hairbrush...in a split second.

[Oceanbreeze]

I think Wabash is right. The boy was treating the hairdryer as a weapon. I have to think 20 bullets could have been a bit much but they can't wait to see if it is a hairdryer or a gun with or without bullets.

I agree. I read the mother called 911 when threatened by her son. The 911 heard the son say he had a gun as numerous wittnesses did, too. However, had they known he was mentally ill would it have changed the outcome?

[cassandra]

Aren't all criminals a bit mental to some extent? Obviously they are having a hard time discerning right from wrong. I don't think it is up to a cop who is on the streets to figure out the why for every criminal.

[toxic]

We train officers to keep firing until the threat has ceased.....not everyone just falls over like on TV or the movies.....especially those on some kind of drug, drunk or mentally ill.
For those keyboard warriors, the name of the game for the officer on the street is to finish your shift and be able to go home at the end of it...the officer has a fraction of a second to decide if the threat is real or not. Wrong decision, and you finish your shift in the hospital or a body bag....

Thanks for your support Cassandra!

Hey Wabby, I have heard that same delusion crap from Officers in my little town for 15 years before they had their first shooting. "Fraction of a second" my ass.

I have made a couple complaints to the department for Cops acting hysterial when I try to talk to them at 8:00 AM on my way to work. I'm sure someone would be dead if I ever attempted to talk to them at night. It is funny to have Internal Affairs tell me about the great threat I posed to all humanity by photographing a parked police car from 150 ft away!!!

And yes, guys like you teach the same delusional crap to citizens for Concealed Permits. I think that attitude has only increased the frequency of erronous shootings.

For Cops to assume that everyone s/he meets on the street has super human talents, super physical ability and is armed ... is "Crazy".

Most officers would do better to be more familiar with their weapon and learn to Aim before pulling the trigger. This could save a few seconds of time currently wasted today.

[toxic]

Aren't all criminals a bit mental to some extent? Obviously they are having a hard time discerning right from wrong. I don't think it is up to a cop who is on the streets to figure out the why for every criminal.

Perhaps criminals are mental to some extent, but to assume that every person is a criminal is a mistake.

I have seen even an elderly person treated pretty bad in your state, even when they were at the police station being questioned and absolutely no threat existed.

One thin frail looking old (65+ ish) guy has been arrested for DWI. He and the officer were sitting at a table as the Cop filled out the arrest report. The Cop asked what time he left the bar. The old guy startedd to look at his watch, but the cop grabbed his arm and twisted it around in a direction an arm is not intended to rotate. Why??? So the guy would give a less accurate time, which could indicate he was less sober.

I was sitting at the same table and was unimpressed by the Cops performance. Plus his disregard for the old guy's screaming and his squirming effort to twist his body to realign his arm.

The Cop, while still holding the old guy's arm and ignoring his screaming, began to interogate me for watching. He was even an asshole to me, even though I was riding along with my brotherthat night who was a Cop working out of the same station. He directed me to go over around the corner, where I would be out of view of his antics.

[Wabash]

And folks wonder why some other folks don't trust cops. :roll

Interestin' that some view "the boy was treating the hairdryer as a weapon" when the article stated "Investigators later discovered the object the teen was holding was a hairbrush." :whistle

And Wabby, I have been in many shoot situations, but havin' TRAINING at FLETC and a coupla other academies combined with EXPERIENCE, I know that cops that can't do the job should be removed from STREET DUTY and cops that over react ruin the morale of GOOD COPS who want to protect and serve the public. Good cops can distinguish the difference between a weapon and a hairbrush...in a split second.

Well, you are incorrect on part of that(highlighted)...that's not true at all. You should know better than to spout off stuff like that!

Hey Wabby, I have heard that same delusion crap from Officers in my little town for 15 years before they had their first shooting. "Fraction of a second" my ass.

I have made a couple complaints to the department for Cops acting hysterial when I try to talk to them at 8:00 AM on my way to work. I'm sure someone would be dead if I ever attempted to talk to them at night. It is funny to have Internal Affairs tell me about the great threat I posed to all humanity by photographing a parked police car from 150 ft away!!!

And yes, guys like you teach the same delusional crap to citizens for Concealed Permits. I think that attitude has only increased the frequency of erronous shootings.

For Cops to assume that everyone s/he meets on the street has super human talents, super physical ability and is armed ... is "Crazy".

Most officers would do better to be more familiar with their weapon and learn to Aim before pulling the trigger. This could save a few seconds of time currently wasted today.

It's obvious to me, that you have never done the job, therefore as a layman are not qualified to make an intelligent opinion!
I guarantee you, that if a person comes up to you with a gun in their hand, even if you have your gun drawn, it will only take a fraction of a second to put a bullet in you. So, if you perceive someone with something in their hand and the dispatch and witnesses say this person has a gun, it is very hard to make that determination in less than a second when confronted by said perp!
A kid can kill you just as quick as an adult, probably quicker!
I stand by my previous statement!

[Wabash]

Perhaps criminals are mental to some extent, but to assume that every person is a criminal is a mistake.

I have seen even an elderly person treated pretty bad in your state, even when they were at the police station being questioned and absolutely no threat existed.

One thin frail looking old (65+ ish) guy has been arrested for DWI. He and the officer were sitting at a table as the Cop filled out the arrest report. The Cop asked what time he left the bar. The old guy startedd to look at his watch, but the cop grabbed his arm and twisted it around in a direction an arm is not intended to rotate. Why??? So the guy would give a less accurate time, which could indicate he was less sober.

I was sitting at the same table and was unimpressed by the Cops performance. Plus his disregard for the old guy's screaming and his squirming effort to twist his body to realign his arm.

The Cop, while still holding the old guy's arm and ignoring his screaming, began to interogate me for watching. He was even an asshole to me, even though I was riding along with my brotherthat night who was a Cop working out of the same station. He directed me to go over around the corner, where I would be out of view of his antics.

Still another incident of where you display your liberal hatred. You don't hate your brother do you? I don't approve of the tactics of the officer discribed by you, but not every cop out there is perfect per a liberals' definition.
You are one of those type that would rather see a cop knocked down and beaten or shot rather than see a citizen who has broken the law be dealt with effectively.
Tell me tox, do you have any stories of good deeds or bravery of one or more officers over your life time? How many brave and courages soldiers have you talked to and admire?

[cassandra]

Perhaps criminals are mental to some extent, but to assume that every person is a criminal is a mistake.



I was assuming that this was a person pointing a gun in my direction. Sorry I can't think they were just out doing nothing suspicious.

[Wabash]

I was assuming that this was a person pointing a gun in my direction. Sorry I can't think they were just out doing nothing suspicious.

Correct! If you get a call that indicates rape, aggravated assault, or someone with a gun or other weapon, you are at a High state of rediness.

Also, contrary to popular belief, some folks in Federal LE are not too savvy about weapons use or tactics. The exception might be Border patrol or BATF....many in the FBI perform more of a clerical role than a street cop type as depicted on TV. Of all the FBI agents that I have met, I have not been impressed with their street smarts or should I say lack of. They are ovrrated in the opinion of most regular police agencies!

[Kurtz]

Wabby, I am a graduate of The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, I attended their weapons training, I was taught THEIR standards and I stand by my statement: A well trained 'n experienced cop knows the difference between a weapon 'n an object that is not a weapon.

Cadets are disciplined for shootin' non-armed suspects while in weapons training at FLETC. They are not commended for shootin' at non-armed suspects just because they are scared 'n failed to use proper judgment.

[toxic]

I was assuming that this was a person pointing a gun in my direction. Sorry I can't think they were just out doing nothing suspicious.

If that person has a gun, that is a good assumption. When it isn't, that may mean something else. The hold concept of "throw down weapons", is based on "bad" shootings, when the suspect didn't have a weapon. You can always find something nearby that you can claim looked like a weapon.

Your assumption is the same assumption that most every juror makes and/or other person with no experience with the police.

They assume that everyone shot or arrested is guilty. The jurist prudence system is a failure.

Throw down weapons:
http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/throw_down/

[Wabash]

Wabby, I am a graduate of The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, I attended their weapons training, I was taught THEIR standards and I stand by my statement: A well trained 'n experienced cop knows the difference between a weapon 'n an object that is not a weapon.

Cadets are disciplined for shootin' non-armed suspects while in weapons training at FLETC. They are not commended for shootin' at non-armed suspects just because they are scared 'n failed to use proper judgment.

I know what FLETC means Kurtz..Good training. I conducted many Shoot don't shoot drills of my own, been doing it for 33 years now. Night shoots too, also rain and snow and freezing cold down to 0 chill factor.
Again, the highlighted portion is key! Not everyone is that well trained, not everyone has lots of experience and some never take their weapons out of the holster in 20+ years on the job. Lots of cops don't like to practice, and will make all kinds of excuses to not be on the range unless forced to be...
As good as FLETC training is...they cannot prepare everyone for every situation, nor can many departments afford that kind of training.

This may have been a bad shoot...or not. Too many variables go into street situations to make a determination on this forum. It is NOT cut and dry!
That's why shooting review boards are enacted.

[Wabash]

If that person has a gun, that is a good assumption. When it isn't, that may mean something else. The hold concept of "throw down weapons", is based on "bad" shootings, when the suspect didn't have a weapon. You can always find something nearby that you can claim looked like a weapon.

Your assumption is the same assumption that most every juror makes and/or other person with no experience with the police.

They assume that everyone shot or arrested is guilty. The jurist prudence system is a failure.

Throw down weapons:
http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/throw_down/

I'm seeing a continual pattern here of cop hating, defiance of authority and liberalism in general..

[toxic]

It's obvious to me, that you have never done the job, therefore as a layman are not qualified to make an intelligent opinion!
I guarantee you, that if a person comes up to you with a gun in their hand, even if you have your gun drawn, it will only take a fraction of a second to put a bullet in you. So, if you perceive someone with something in their hand and the dispatch and witnesses say this person has a gun, it is very hard to make that determination in less than a second when confronted by said perp!
A kid can kill you just as quick as an adult, probably quicker!
I stand by my previous statement!

I can tell you that I have been in much more challenging and frequent situations than any cop. Oddly, my vision and brain never failed me. Nor did I ever get shot by a hair dryer or sissors.

We are not talking about people we know have a weapon.
We are not talking about "perps".
We are talking about situations where we are uncertain of what is going on or my example situation where a retarded kid has a pair if sissors at 25 ft away.

It is a crime for me to shoot someone when I am uncertain. In Texas, THERE IS NO DEFENSE (in court) FOR SHOOTING AN INNOCENT PERSON. The Police do not have this constraint. I don't recall a Cop EVER being charged when they shoot by mistake in Texas.

Apparently it is too much to ask for a Cop to wait a few minutes, use binoculars, use night vision equipment or just find out what the hell is going on before shooting.

[Kurtz]

I know what FLETC means Kurtz..Good training. I conducted many Shoot don't shoot drills of my own, been doing it for 33 years now. Night shoots too, also rain and snow and freezing cold down to 0 chill factor.
Again, the highlighted portion is key! Not everyone is that well trained, not everyone has lots of experience and some never take their weapons out of the holster in 20+ years on the job. Lots of cops don't like to practice, and will make all kinds of excuses to not be on the range unless forced to be...
As good as FLETC training is...they cannot prepare everyone for every situation, nor can many departments afford that kind of training.

This may have been a bad shoot...or not. Too many variables go into street situations to make a determination on this forum. It is NOT cut and dry!
That's why shooting review boards are enacted.

I agree with you on the above bolded parts.

And don't deny toxic's statement about drop weapons
coz WE COPS do know about THOSE too, don't we, Wabby? :whistle

[Wabash]

I can tell you that I have been in much more challenging and frequent situations than any cop. Oddly, my vision and brain never failed me. Nor did I ever get shot by a hair dryer or sissors.

We are not talking about people we know have a weapon.
We are not talking about "perps".
We are talking about situations where we are uncertain of what is going on or my example situation where a retarded kid has a pair if sissors at 25 ft away.

It is a crime for me to shoot someone when I am uncertain. In Texas, THERE IS NO DEFENSE (in court) FOR SHOOTING AN INNOCENT PERSON. The Police do not have this constraint. I don't recall a Cop EVER being charged when they shoot by mistake in Texas.

Apparently it is too much to ask for a Cop to wait a few minutes, use binoculars, use night vision equipment or just find out what the hell is going on before shooting.


Sometimes you don't have the luxury of time, most cops don't carry binocs and night vision equipment doesn't work in hoods with street lights and housing or building lights on..it is for total or near total darkness!
why don't you give us some idea of what kind of your "situations"!

[toxic]

I'm seeing a continual pattern here of cop hating, defiance of authority and liberalism in general..

Your statement doesn't surprise me. You don't believe in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, or that people enforcing the law have any responsibility to the public.

You think anyone with a tin badge and gun, get carte blanch to do whatever they feel like doing.

I am seeing a person that thinks they can kill based on suspicion.
A person that thinks it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

I have told you once before, but will remind you. Half of the people in my Concealed Handgun Carry class (by raised hand), said that one reason for them getting a permit was TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST THE POLICE.

There is a defense allowed in Texas courts for shooting a Law Enforcement Officer that was violating your rights and you were in danger of bodily harm. Maybe you need a similar law in Washington state.

[toxic]

Sometimes you don't have the luxury of time, most cops don't carry binocs and night vision equipment doesn't work in hoods with street lights and housing or building lights on..it is for total or near total darkness!
why don't you give us some idea of what kind of your "situations"!

Gee, I never thought I would hear the "don't have" argument after I saw Night Vision equipment at K-Mart for $69 and Homeland Security sending a $Trillion out to communities across the country.

The cops in my town have Thermal Imaging or Generation III equipment that is fine around lighting.

My experiences are personal and not for your entertainment.

[toxic]

... Again, the highlighted portion is key! Not everyone is that well trained, not everyone has lots of experience and some never take their weapons out of the holster in 20+ years on the job. Lots of cops don't like to practice, and will make all kinds of excuses to not be on the range unless forced to be...
As good as FLETC training is...they cannot prepare everyone for every situation, nor can many departments afford that kind of training.

This may have been a bad shoot...or not. Too many variables go into street situations to make a determination on this forum. It is NOT cut and dry!
That's why shooting review boards are enacted.

I guess I missed this post, as it seems to be one that I can agree with you on also.

I am NOT condeming Cops in every shooting nor exonerating them either.

[Wabash]

Your statement doesn't surprise me. You don't believe in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, or that people enforcing the law have any responsibility to the public.

Not True at all!
You think anyone with a tin badge and gun, get carte blanch to do whatever they feel like doing.

Not true at all, I think no such thing, but thanks for telling me what I think!

I am seeing a person that thinks they can kill based on suspicion.
A person that thinks it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

Never said that! Not true at all!

I have told you once before, but will remind you. Half of the people in my Concealed Handgun Carry class (by raised hand), said that one reason for them getting a permit was TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST THE POLICE.
Never heard you say that, that I can remember! Things must be different in Texas, but it's not that way in Oregon and out of 4300 civilians graduated from my class, no one has ever idicated anything of the sort!

There is a defense allowed in Texas courts for shooting a Law Enforcement Officer that was violating your rights and you were in danger of bodily harm. Maybe you need a similar law in Washington state.

Not Washington! Sounds dumb to me, but than Texans are primitive!

Gee, I never thought I would hear the "don't have" argument after I saw Night Vision equipment at K-Mart for $69 and Homeland Security sending a $Trillion out to communities across the country.

The cops in my town have Thermal Imaging or Generation III equipment that is fine around lighting.
I've been retired for a few years now, but we never had that kind of equipment before.
My experiences are personal and not for your entertainment.
So we have to take your statement on face value with no backup info? You won't let me do that!
I submit you might be full of shit!



Your attitude and dialogue sound VERY liberal to me...But we already knew that...more like ultra lib!

[Wabash]

I guess I missed this post, as it seems to be one that I can agree with you on also.

I am NOT condeming Cops in every shooting nor exonerating them either.

Hell, me either! I'm glad we can agree.

We had a State Trooper here in Oregon several years ago that didn't like guns. He had no problem getting physical with his hands and did..but could not qualify on the range...many times...they would call in special instructors from HdQ. and work with him all day to get qualified...to me, that's scary!

[Wabash]

I agree with you on the above bolded parts.

And don't deny toxic's statement about drop weapons
coz WE COPS do know about THOSE too, don't we, Wabby? :whistle

Sure we do and I know plenty of cops that carry them...but I am not one to every carry one! I always had a backup, but it was expensive and I would never leave it behind.
Thanks for agreeing with me on some of this....

[Wabash]

btw...the avg. street cop around here does not carry night vision equip, thermal imaging, or even a rifle ...those are for command staff or SWAT! Some do carry a rifle, I always did because of the very rural and wooded areas patroled here that require more than a handgun or shotgun, do to limited range of both....

Sounds like things are cowboyish in TX. Not that way up here..for the most part.

[cassandra]

If that person has a gun, that is a good assumption. When it isn't, that may mean something else. The hold concept of "throw down weapons", is based on "bad" shootings, when the suspect didn't have a weapon. You can always find something nearby that you can claim looked like a weapon.

Your assumption is the same assumption that most every juror makes and/or other person with no experience with the police.

They assume that everyone shot or arrested is guilty. The jurist prudence system is a failure.

Throw down weapons:
http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/throw_down/

I am not exactly sure what you are advocating here. Do you want the cop to find out the guilt of said person?

I personally do not think that everyone who is arrested is guilty. I think that they are arrested so that things can be sorted out.

[Wabash]

I am not exactly sure what you are advocating here. Do you want the cop to find out the guilt of said person?

I personally do not think that everyone who is arrested is guilty. I think that they are arrested so that things can be sorted out.

When in Doubt...shoot it Out!




Jes jokin..........I couldn't resist...

[toxic]

btw...the avg. street cop around here does not carry night vision equip, thermal imaging, or even a rifle ...those are for command staff or SWAT! Some do carry a rifle, I always did because of the very rural and wooded areas patroled here that require more than a handgun or shotgun, do to limited range of both....

Sounds like things are cowboyish in TX. Not that way up here..for the most part.

Cowboys - Yes.

Did you see the Truck (Tractor-Trailer) that they were trying to stop between Dallas and Fort Worth a couple months ago? The woman driver was being held hostage in the cab.

At one point, the Dallas SWAT pulled out a Barrett .50 caliber!!! Although they were not in the middle of a neighborhood, it still would have been irresponsible to fire that thing. I cannot think of ANY useful application of a rifle like that in a metro area - period. How many miles would it go and through how many houses???

Eventually, the State Police used a rifle (maybe M-16, I forget) to shoot out the tires and perforate fuel tanks.


http://bastardsinc.blogs.com/bastardsinc/images/barrett_xm109_payload_rifle.jpg

http://www.rolisonwebcreations.com/aao/images/scratchonesuicidebomber_shot.jpg

[toxic]

I am not exactly sure what you are advocating here. Do you want the cop to find out the guilt of said person?

I personally do not think that everyone who is arrested is guilty. I think that they are arrested so that things can be sorted out.

I think I can say in 95% of the cases, no further investigation occurs after the initial arrest. So yes, I consider it the Cops responsibility to knows that his arrests are guilty people in most cases.

After that everyone assumes guilt and trys to move people through the "system" as fast as possible.

For the arrestee, the prosecutor (and your own lawyer) try to convince you that you have no chance in court. Everyone wants you to "plead guilty to a lesser crime", collect their fee, get credit for a conviction and move on to the next person.

If you want to see investigations, watch TV. Investigations are saved for murders, robberies, and rapes.

So basically, just support whatever procedures and treatment you want your own kids to receive when they are teens and stumble into a bad situation someday.

[Wabash]

Cowboys - Yes.

Did you see the Truck (Tractor-Trailer) that they were trying to stop between Dallas and Fort Worth a couple months ago? The woman driver was being held hostage in the cab.

At one point, the Dallas SWAT pulled out a Barrett .50 caliber!!! Although they were not in the middle of a neighborhood, it still would have been irresponsible to fire that thing. I cannot think of ANY useful application of a rifle like that in a metro area - period. How many miles would it go and through how many houses???
Mine will shoot a long, long way. I just keep it in reserve, in case of total chaos. To me, there are no guns that are bad or unnecessary, only the people that use them for criminal purposes. The guns are just a tool.

Eventually, the State Police used a rifle (maybe M-16, I forget) to shoot out the tires and perforate fuel tanks.


http://bastardsinc.blogs.com/bastardsinc/images/barrett_xm109_payload_rifle.jpg

http://www.rolisonwebcreations.com/aao/images/scratchonesuicidebomber_shot.jpg

I think I can say in 95% of the cases, no further investigation occurs after the initial arrest. So yes, I consider it the Cops responsibility to knows that his arrests are guilty people in most cases.

After that everyone assumes guilt and trys to move people through the "system" as fast as possible.

For the arrestee, the prosecutor (and your own lawyer) try to convince you that you have no chance in court. Everyone wants you to "plead guilty to a lesser crime", collect their fee, get credit for a conviction and move on to the next person.

If you want to see investigations, watch TV. Investigations are saved for murders, robberies, and rapes.

So basically, just support whatever procedures and treatment you want your own kids to receive when they are teens and stumble into a bad situation someday.

I have to agree with you on this...there are many overzealous cops and especially prosecutors....we had a PD here that we nicked named Monty Hall. If a defendant wanted to get screwed, he was the go to guy...I would be back in the Judge's chambers chatting with him or her and this guy would come in and he and the judge would decide how to proceed and than go into the court room and get r done. The poor slobs didn't stand a chance because they would listen to their atty.

[Trueblue]

Wabby, I am a graduate of The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, I attended their weapons training, I was taught THEIR standards and I stand by my statement: A well trained 'n experienced cop knows the difference between a weapon 'n an object that is not a weapon.

Cadets are disciplined for shootin' non-armed suspects while in weapons training at FLETC. They are not commended for shootin' at non-armed suspects just because they are scared 'n failed to use proper judgment.

I appreciate this perspective.

I guess I missed this post, as it seems to be one that I can agree with you on also.

I am NOT condeming Cops in every shooting nor exonerating them either.

:werd

[toxic]

I have to agree with you on this...there are many overzealous cops and especially prosecutors....we had a PD here that we nicked named Monty Hall. If a defendant wanted to get screwed, he was the go to guy...I would be back in the Judge's chambers chatting with him or her and this guy would come in and he and the judge would decide how to proceed and than go into the court room and get r done. The poor slobs didn't stand a chance because they would listen to their atty.

I think that is std procedure. The Trinity decides, the Father (Judge), the Son (DA/Prosecutor) and the Holy Ghost (Defense lawyer).

Anything that happens in the courtroom is for entertainment only.

[Kurtz]

I think that is std procedure. The Trinity decides, the Father (Judge), the Son (DA/Prosecutor) and the Holy Ghost (Defense lawyer).

Anything that happens in the courtroom is for entertainment only.



And all 'excecuted' with book sales 'n film rights in mind. :wink