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issac the dragon
11-10-2007, 06:43 PM
it looks like a recession and feels like a recession ...

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Go to Columnist Page » “Quite frankly,” said Senator Charles Schumer, peering over his glasses at the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, “I think we are at a moment of economic crisis, stemming from four key areas: falling housing prices, lack of confidence in creditworthiness, the weak dollar and high oil prices.”

He asked Mr. Bernanke, at a Congressional hearing Thursday, if we were headed toward a recession.

An aide handed the chairman his dancing shoes, and Mr. Bernanke executed a flawless version of the Washington waffle. He said: “Our forecast is for moderate, but positive, growth going forward.” He said: “Economists are extremely bad at predicting turning points, and we don’t pretend to be any better.” He said: “We have not calculated the probability of recession, and I wouldn’t want to offer that today.”

With all due respect to the chairman, he would see the recession that so many others are feeling if he would only open his eyes. While Mr. Bernanke and others are waiting for the official diagnosis (a decline in the gross domestic product for two successive quarters), the disease is spreading and has been spreading for some time.

The evidence is all around us. Representative Elijah Cummings of Maryland told Mr. Bernanke that many members of Congress are holding forums in their districts “to help people who are coming to our doors, literally with tears in their eyes, and trying to figure out how they’re going to manage a foreclosure that’s right around the corner.”

The housing meltdown is getting the attention, but there’s so much more. Bankruptcies and homelessness are on the rise. The job market has been weak for years. The auto industry is in trouble. The cost of food, gasoline and home heating oil are soaring at a time when millions of Americans are managing to make it from one month to another solely by the grace of their credit cards.

The country has been in denial for years about the economic reality facing American families. That grim reality has been masked by the flimflammery of official statistics (job growth good, inflation low) and the muscular magic of the American way of debt: mortgages on top of mortgages, pyramiding student loans and an opiatelike addiction to credit cards at rates that used to get people locked up for loan-sharking.

The big story out of Mr. Bernanke’s appearance before the Joint Economic Committee was his prediction that the economy was likely to worsen. Only the people still trapped in denial could have believed otherwise.

This is what Representative Maurice Hinchey of upstate New York told the chairman:

“This economy is not doing well. And the example of the mortgage closures on 2 million people — and maybe a lot more than that as time goes on — is really not the cause of the economic problem we’re facing, but it’s just a factor of it. It’s a factor of the weakness of this economy.”

In an interview after the hearing, Representative Hinchey discussed the disconnect between official government reports and the reality facing working families. He noted that the unemployment rate does not include workers who have become so discouraged that they’ve given up looking for a job.

And the most popular measure of inflation, the Consumer Price Index, does not include the cost of energy or food, “the two most significant aspects of the increased cost of living for the American people.”

The elite honchos in Washington and their courtiers in the news media are all but completely out of touch with the daily struggle of working families. Thirty-seven million Americans live in poverty and close to 60 million others are just a notch above the official poverty line.

An illness, an auto accident, the loss of a job — almost anything can knock them off their rickety economic perch.

We hear over and over that consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of the gross domestic product, but we seldom hear about the frightening number of Americans who are trying desperately to maintain a working-class or middle-class style of life while descending into a sinkhole of debt.

“We have an economy that is based on increased debt,” said Mr. Hinchey. “The national debt is now slightly above $9 trillion, and ordinary working people are finding that they have to borrow more and more to maintain their standard of living."

“The average now is that people are spending close to 10 percent more than they earn every month. Obviously, that can’t be sustained.”

The chickens of our denial are coming home to roost with a vengeance. Meanwhile, the elites are scouring the landscape for signs of a recession.

www.nytimes.com/2007/11/10/opinion/10herbert.html?ref=opinion

I am so tired of the president telling the people of this country how well off we are, when we know good and well we aren't. The Bushies hoped they could put this off until a Democrat got in the WH and blame it on him. Too bad it didn't work.

Hurricane
11-10-2007, 06:47 PM
Oh, we're defenitely feeling some recession.

I don't blame bush for it totally. It was time.

quiet man
11-10-2007, 10:54 PM
could it be that we need a new term for the economics types? segmented recession? due to the immensity of the neww world economy this seems like a possibilty to me.

Trueblue
11-11-2007, 08:08 AM
I think you are right, quiet man.

There is a term "stagflation" for when the economy stalls but prices go up. :scared Not only is that a scary concept, it sounds like a nasty medical condition.

toxic
11-13-2007, 12:54 PM
... "Go to Columnist Page » “Quite frankly,” said Senator Charles Schumer, peering over his glasses at the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, “I think we are at a moment of economic crisis, stemming from four key areas: falling housing prices, lack of confidence in creditworthiness, the weak dollar and high oil prices.” ...

That is about as clear as it can be said.

... And the most popular measure of inflation, the Consumer Price Index, does not include the cost of energy or food, “the two most significant aspects of the increased cost of living for the American people.” ...

All the data is being fudged now.

... We hear over and over that consumer spending accounts for 70 percent of the gross domestic product, but we seldom hear about the frightening number of Americans who are trying desperately to maintain a working-class or middle-class style of life while descending into a sinkhole of debt. ...

“We have an economy that is based on increased debt,” said Mr. Hinchey. “The national debt is now slightly above $9 trillion, and ordinary working people are finding that they have to borrow more and more to maintain their standard of living."

Everything boosts GDP, even additions to the National Debt is counted.

... “The average now is that people are spending close to 10 percent more than they earn every month. Obviously, that can’t be sustained.” ...

Wow.

Wabash
11-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Let it snow, let it snow, lettttt it snow!:hotdog


I'm putting money in the bank each month, after expenses....about 20% .... the mutts are over extended and stupid!

issac the dragon
11-13-2007, 02:00 PM
We are all happy that you are doing well. Does it bother you at all that many people who are working very hard are not?

toxic
11-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Let it snow, let it snow, lettttt it snow!:hotdog


I'm putting money in the bank each month, after expenses....about 20% .... the mutts are over extended and stupid!

When the people without money loot and burn the stores, where will you spend your money?

Wabash
11-13-2007, 02:38 PM
We are all happy that you are doing well. Does it bother you at all that many people who are working very hard are not?

Nope! It wouldn't bother them if I was starving to death. What I have is by design, not by accident! I have a wife that is sick to support and 5 kids to help out if needed, plus 2 good friends that I would help if needed....that's enough for one guy to be bothered about!

When the people without money loot and burn the stores, where will you spend your money?

Won't have to, after I shoot their asses, I'll take what they have.

Wabash
11-13-2007, 03:00 PM
You guys should be listening to the Cuban lady on Rush right now! Intelligent, BA degree, hard working, stay at home Mom and Republican!

Her husband came over from Cuba, had nothing for about 7 years. He had a 4 year engineering degree which meant nothing. He had to learn English, get a high school diploma than went on to get a BA and a Masters Degree....he now has a good job and teaches English for free to other Hispanics.

They were told by numerous people to get on welfare in the beginning and apply for things that would get them free education and so on..they accepted None of it! They did it on their own!
She said they voted Republican the whole time and that liberalism was Crap!
She was really fired up!

Wabash
11-13-2007, 03:18 PM
I just heard on the radio that earnings for white males has remained stagnant, but earnings for white females has skyrocketed!

I bet a dollar to a doughnut many of them did it without entitlements!

Liberalism is CRAP....and the Demos want you to be dependent on govt. for Life!
W/O strife, they offer nothing and have nothing!

Kurtz
11-13-2007, 04:10 PM
The country has been in denial for years about the economic reality facing American families. That grim reality has been masked by the flimflammery of official statistics (job growth good, inflation low) and the muscular magic of the American way of debt: mortgages on top of mortgages, pyramiding student loans and an opiatelike addiction to credit cards at rates that used to get people locked up for loan-sharking.

Gonna get bad, then worse 'n guess what, Wabby?
It'll start eatin' away at your stash too
'n then you won't be special anymore. :lol

Wabash
11-13-2007, 04:17 PM
Gonna get bad, then worse 'n guess what, Wabby?
It'll start eatin' away at your stash too
'n then you won't be special anymore. :lol

I've never been "special"...just a harmless fuzz ball trying to get along in life.(I kid the Kurtz!)

I'm concerned about things, but not worried...Hillary will save us!:rofl:rofl:rofl

Pelosi and Reid saved us last year... right?....:rofl:woohoo:lol

I'm locked and loaded Kurtz and prepared for almost anything...

toxic
11-13-2007, 04:23 PM
You guys should be listening to the Cuban lady on Rush right now! Intelligent, BA degree, hard working, stay at home Mom and Republican!

Her husband came over from Cuba, had nothing for about 7 years. He had a 4 year engineering degree which meant nothing. He had to learn English, get a high school diploma than went on to get a BA and a Masters Degree....he now has a good job and teaches English for free to other Hispanics.

They were told by numerous people to get on welfare in the beginning and apply for things that would get them free education and so on..they accepted None of it! They did it on their own!
She said they voted Republican the whole time and that liberalism was Crap!
She was really fired up!

Nothing like an illegal immigrant and some bullshit made up story to get Wabby excited.

Story telling is a big business in the Conservative community. Conservatives love hero worship.

They never tire of having someone tell an unverifiable story of how Conservative principles trumped logic.

Then every once in a while someone with some self respect comes along and refuses to go along with the fairy tale. (Jessica Lynch)

BTW, why was it that that Cuba degree meant nothing???? How hard is it to retake classes you already had???

toxic
11-13-2007, 04:30 PM
...
Won't have to, after I shoot their asses, I'll take what they have.

...
I'm locked and loaded Kurtz and prepared for almost anything...

Hey, Liberals are locked and loaded too.

I'm not going to store anything, I'm going to steal it from people like you :rofl

I live right in the middle of a bunch of Conservatives. I can't wait :)

Wabash
11-13-2007, 04:37 PM
Nothing like an illegal immigrant and some bullshit made up story to get Wabby excited.

Story telling is a big business in the Conservative community. Conservatives love hero worship.

They never tire of having someone tell an unverifiable story of how Conservative principles trumped logic.

Then every once in a while someone with some self respect comes along and refuses to go along with the fairy tale. (Jessica Lynch)

BTW, why was it that that Cuba degree meant nothing???? How hard is it to retake classes you already had???

Well, I could tell just by her fire that she was on the level, mad as hell about Libs bullshit and was a decent gal! She had it together...anyone listening could tell that, even a moron liberal! I don't know why Florida wouldn't recognize his degree..

Hey, Liberals are locked and loaded too.

I'm not going to store anything, I'm going to steal it from people like you :rofl

I live right in the middle of a bunch of Conservatives. I can't wait :)

You won't be stealing anything from me, I guarantee you!!

Lone Laugher
11-13-2007, 04:48 PM
I have listened to Rush and Hannity for hours over the past year...I find very little of what airs during their shows to be "genuine". Lots of sarcasm...lots of rants...not much real conversation.

All aboard the Stop Hillary Express...first stop...Excellence in Broadcatsing. Final destination...the super-duper radio talk show host gift shop! Get your merchandise while it's hot! You idiots!

April15
11-13-2007, 05:12 PM
When the people without money loot and burn the stores, where will you spend your money?I most likely will be one of the looters!

Kurtz
11-13-2007, 05:26 PM
I have listened to Rush and Hannity for hours over the past year...I find very little of what airs during their shows to be "genuine". Lots of sarcasm...lots of rants...not much real conversation.

All aboard the Stop Hillary Express...first stop...Excellence in Broadcatsing. Final destination...the super-duper radio talk show host gift shop! Get your merchandise while it's hot! You idiots!

No shit! :lmao
That O'Lielly guy sells all kinds of useless crap. :lol