The deceit behind global warming

[Wabash]

By Christopher Booker and Richard North
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 04/11/2007

No one can deny that in recent years the need to "save the planet" from global warming has become one of the most pervasive issues of our time. As Tony Blair's chief scientific adviser, Sir David King, claimed in 2004, it poses "a far greater threat to the world than international terrorism", warning that by the end of this century the only habitable continent left will be Antarctica.

Inevitably, many people have been bemused by this somewhat one-sided debate, imagining that if so many experts are agreed, then there must be something in it. But if we set the story of how this fear was promoted in the context of other scares before it, the parallels which emerge might leave any honest believer in global warming feeling uncomfortable.

The story of how the panic over climate change was pushed to the top of the international agenda falls into five main stages. Stage one came in the 1970s when many scientists expressed alarm over what they saw as a disastrous change in the earth's climate. Their fear was not of warming but global cooling, of "a new Ice Age".

For three decades, after a sharp rise in the interwar years up to 1940, global temperatures had been falling. The one thing certain about climate is that it is always changing. Since we began to emerge from the last Ice Age 20,000 years ago, temperatures have been through significant swings several times. The hottest period occurred around 8,000 years ago and was followed by a long cooling. Then came what is known as the "Roman Warming", coinciding with the Roman empire. Three centuries of cooling in the Dark Ages were followed by the "Mediaeval Warming", when the evidence agrees the world was hotter than today.

Around 1300 began "the Little Ice Age", that did not end until 200 years ago, when we entered what is known as the "Modern Warming". But even this has been chequered by colder periods, such as the "Little Cooling" between 1940 and 1975. Then, in the late 1970s, the world began warming again.

A scare is often set off — as we show in our book with other examples — when two things are observed together and scientists suggest one must have been caused by the other. In this case, thanks to readings commissioned by Dr Roger Revelle, a distinguished American oceanographer, it was observed that since the late 1950s levels of carbon dioxide in the earth's atmosphere had been rising. Perhaps it was this increase that was causing the new warming in the 1980s?

Stage two of the story began in 1988 when, with remarkable speed, the global warming story was elevated into a ruling orthodoxy, partly due to hearings in Washington chaired by a youngish senator, Al Gore, who had studied under Dr Revelle in the 1960s.

But more importantly global warming hit centre stage because in 1988 the UN set up its Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (the IPCC). Through a series of reports, the IPCC was to advance its cause in a rather unusual fashion. First it would commission as many as 1,500 experts to produce a huge scientific report, which might include all sorts of doubts and reservations. But this was to be prefaced by a Summary for Policymakers, drafted in con-sult-ation with governments and officials — essentially a political document — in which most of the caveats contained in the experts' report would not appear.

This contradiction was obvious in the first report in 1991, which led to the Rio conference on climate change in 1992. The second report in 1996 gave particular prominence to a study by an obscure US government scientist claiming that the evidence for a connection between global warming and rising CO2 levels was now firmly established. This study came under heavy fire from various leading climate experts for the way it manipulated the evidence. But this was not allowed to stand in the way of the claim that there was now complete scientific consensus behind the CO2 thesis, and the Summary for Policy-makers, heavily influenced from behind the scenes by Al Gore, by this time US Vice-President, paved the way in 1997 for the famous Kyoto Protocol.

Kyoto initiated stage three of the story, by formally committing governments to drastic reductions in their CO2 emissions. But the treaty still had to be ratified and this seemed a good way off, not least thanks to its rejection in 1997 by the US Senate, despite the best attempts of Mr Gore.

Not the least of his efforts was his bid to suppress an article co-authored by Dr Revelle just before his death. Gore didn't want it to be known that his guru had urged that the global warming thesis should be viewed with more caution.

One of the greatest problems Gore and his allies faced at this time was the mass of evidence showing that in the past, global temperatures had been higher than in the late 20th century. In 1998 came the answer they were looking for: a new temperature chart, devised by a young American physicist, Michael Mann. This became known as the "hockey stick" because it showed historic temperatures running in an almost flat line over the past 1,000 years, then suddenly flicking up at the end to record levels.

Mann's hockey stick was just what the IPCC wanted. When its 2001 report came out it was given pride of place at the top of page 1. The Mediaeval Warming, the Little Ice Age, the 20th century Little Cooling, when CO2 had already been rising, all had been wiped away.

But then a growing number of academics began to raise doubts about Mann and his graph. This culminated in 2003 with a devastating study by two Canadians showing how Mann had not only ignored most of the evidence before him but had used an algorithm that would produce a hockey stick graph whatever evidence was fed into the computer. When this was removed, the graph re-emerged just as it had looked before, showing the Middle Ages as hotter than today.

It is hard to recall any scientific thesis ever being so comprehensively discredited as the "hockey stick". Yet the global warming juggernaut rolled on regardless, now led by the European Union. In 2004, thanks to a highly dubious deal between the EU and Putin's Russia, stage four of the story began when the Kyoto treaty was finally ratified

In the past three years, we have seen the EU announcing every kind of measure geared to fighting climate change, from building ever more highly-subsidised wind turbines, to a commitment that by 2050 it will have reduced carbon emissions by 60 per cent. This is a pledge that could only be met by such a massive reduction in living standards that it is impossible to see the peoples of Europe accepting it.

All this frenzy has rested on the assumption that global temperatures will continue to rise in tandem with CO2 and that, unless mankind takes drastic action, our planet is faced with the apocalypse so vividly described by Al Gore in his Oscar-winning film An Inconvenient Truth.

Yet recently, stage five of the story has seen all sorts of question marks being raised over Gore's alleged consensus. For instance, he claimed that by the end of this century world sea levels will have risen by 20 ft when even the IPCC in its latest report, only predicts a rise of between four and 17 inches.There is also of course the harsh reality that, wholly unaffected by Kyoto, the economies of China and India are now expanding at nearly 10 per cent a year, with China likely to be emitting more CO2 than the US within two years.

More serious, however, has been all the evidence accumulating to show that, despite the continuing rise in CO2 levels, global temperatures in the years since 1998 have no longer been rising and may soon even be falling.

It was a telling moment when, in August, Gore's closest scientific ally, James Hansen of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies, was forced to revise his influential record of US surface temperatures showing that the past decade has seen the hottest years on record. His graph now concedes that the hottest year of the 20th century was not 1998 but 1934, and that four of the 10 warmest years in the past 100 were in the 1930s.

Furthermore, scientists and academics have recently been queuing up to point out that fluctuations in global temperatures correlate more consistently with patterns of radiation from the sun than with any rise in CO2 levels, and that after a century of high solar activity, the sun's effect is now weakening, presaging a likely drop in temperatures.

If global warming does turn out to have been a scare like all the others, it will certainly represent as great a collective flight from reality as history has ever recorded. The evidence of the next 10 years will be very interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...climate104.xml

[Yellowdogtexan]

This article is a joke. The little ice age crap has been disproved. http://scholarsandrogues.wordpress.com/2007/07/23/anti-global-heating-claims-a-reasonably-thorough-debunking/#m6 MYTH #7: The Medieval Warm Period/Medieval Climate Anomaly (MWP) was warmer than conditions today (Source: “Apocalypse Canceled”, by Christopher Monckton among others).
Debunking: This claim has been addressed repeatedly, and every example I found basically summarized down to this: The evidence used by most scientists that believe this claim is anecdotal at best and that while this evidence applies regionally to the area between Greenland and the Ural Mountains, there is not yet enough evidence to support this claim on a hemispherical basis, never mind a global basis. In addition, there is a chance that the MWP and the Little Ice Age (see DENIAL MYTH #9 below) are both artificial and arbitrary and are actually representative a gradual cooling trend as opposed to a periodic oscillation in the global temperature. Check through all the sources for more detailed information. (Sources: Climate of the Last Millennium, by Raymond S. Bradley, Climate System Research Center, Dept. of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, IPCC Working Group 1 Report, Chapter 6, Figure 6.10 and Box 6.4, pages 467-469, Climate Over Past Millennia, by P.D. Jones and M.E. Mann, Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age Myths)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
DENIAL MYTH #8: The MWP has been ignored in order to produce the desired conclusion (Source: “Apocalypse Canceled”, by Christopher Monckton as well as others).
Debunking: Even if this were true in the past (and the sources for Claim #7 above show it has been addressed repeatedly since the release of the TAR), the IPCC Working Group 1 Report, Chapter 6, Figure 6.10 and Box 6.4, pages 467-469 (shown at right) addresses this specifically. In essence, there is statistical evidence that the MWP was not warmer than the last 25 years (since 1980), but there are enough errors in the MWP data to warrant additional research into the scope (Europe? The entire Northern Hemisphere? Global?) and magnitude of the MWP. (source linked above)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DENIAL MYTH #9: The temperatures we’re experiencing in the later part of the 20th century are a result of the global climate finally coming out of the Little Ice Age (Source: distillation of multiple people’s claims at Wikipedia.org).
Debunking: The Little Ice Age is a period of significant cooling in Europe, but there are questions as to whether this known regional change was truly global in dimension. However, if you look at the graph of the temperature data for the last 2000 years, there is no period where the reconstructed global temperatures have changed at a faster rate than in the last 50 years or so. I refer people to the IPCC Working Group 1 Report, Chapter 6, Figure 6.10 and Box 6.4, pages 467-469 (image shown above in Myth #8 above), but also to this NCAR press release that verifies that the basic conclusions of the original “hockey stick” remain accurate even using multiple different models.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
DENIAL MYTH #10: There was a significant period of global cooling between the 1940s and the 1970s. This cooling period existed as anthropogenic CO2 levels were rising significantly. If anthropogenic CO2 is more important than natural drivers, then this cooling period would not exist, yet it does (Sources: produced by Rcronk in the comments to Eastern seaboard of the United States to be much hotter, but also made in the Wikipedia.org claims).
Debunking: That this cooling period existed and was global in scope is not disputable as the scope of the MWP is - scientists were directly monitoring temperatures globally by this point, and these three decades were cooler than the decades preceding them and dramatically cooler than recent decades. So what caused the cooling?

First, there is a correlation between sunspots and solar irradiance (output) on the Earth. During this period, sunspots were less common and there was less solar energy reaching the Earth, allowing it to cool slightly. Second, there were several volcanic eruptions that released massive amounts of sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere. Sulfur dioxide is an aerosol that forms droplets of sulphuric acid in the high atmosphere and reflects solar energy back into space, so these two volcanic eruptions had some short- to medium-term effects. In addition, prior to the 1970s there were limited pollution controls, allowing pollutant aerosols to act as coolants via reflection of solar radiation. Ultimately, though, it is believed that sometime after 1970 the concentration of CO2 rose to the point that solar forcing was no longer the dominant climate factor, anthropogenic CO2 was. (Sources: Do Models Underestimate the Solar Contribution to Recent Climate Change?, Swindled!)
The nice thing here is that if you go to the article, you can access the studies that are used to debunk these myths. The articles on the mythical little ice age are really very good.

[Lone Laugher]

It is clear that Wabby is very concerned about Glapbal Warming. He is too frightened to face it head-on, so he has decided to deny that it is exists.

[Ringo]

If Doggie can get his finger off the CUT & PASTE button of pat answers fed to him by wacko Liberal idiots, maybe he can explain this??

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2002/jan/science/ws_antarctic.html

[Yellowdogtexan]

If Doggie can get his finger off the CUT & PASTE button of pat answers fed to him by wacko Liberal idiots, maybe he can explain this??That article is over 5 years old and recent trends have shown that the southern ice shelf is breaking up at an unexpected rate.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Yesterday, Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize Winner Al Gore had a great comment about global warming deniers. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/05/gore-media/He also sharply criticized the media for giving so much air time to such climate skeptics:But, Meredith, part of the challenge the news media has had in covering this story is the old habit of taking the on the one hand, on the other hand approach. There are still people who believe that the Earth is flat, but when you’re reporting on a story like the one you’re covering today, where you have people all around the world, you don’t take — you don’t search out for someone who still believes the Earth is flat and give them equal time.wabby, ringo, oceanbreeze and others who can not accept the reality of man made global warming have better be worried about falling off the edge of the flat earth. :ydt

[Ringo]

Yesterday, Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize Winner Al Gore had a great comment about global warming deniers. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/05/gore-media/wabby, ringo, oceanbreeze and others who can not accept the reality of man made global warming have better be worried about falling off the edge of the flat earth. :ydt I bet you as a kid you couldn't wait for the newest edition of Casper, Archie, or Supergirl Comics could ya Doggie? Your Header for this story should have read, *Comrade Gore and Wacko Liberal Enviro winner, released more BULLSHIT!!*

Here is what the more intelligent crowd have to say about this SCAM for POWER & MONEY, led by the Criminal Sonofabitch from Tennessee!!

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=927b9303-802a-23ad-494b-dccb00b51a12&Region_id=&Issue_id=

Note Gore's refusal to take the Energy Pledge, the hypocritical asshole and American Traitor! I was drinking ice tea and I went to the John to choke my chicken and didn't see the CRIMINAL Un American Illegal fund raising?? Get a rope!!

[Wabash]

That article if 5 years old and recent trends have shown that the southern ice shelf is breaking up at an unexpected rate.

All Natural in occurence as the cyclic period progresses! You weren't alive the last time that happened dog, or the time before....

Yesterday, Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize Winner Al Gore had a great comment about global warming deniers. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/05/gore-media/wabby, ringo, oceanbreeze and others who can not accept the reality of man made global warming have better be worried about falling off the edge of the flat earth. :ydt

More garbage from the numbnuts Gore! I'm sooooo sick of you guys putting gore up as some sort of expert...HE ISN'T!!!! He has an AGENDA!!!! An agenda to make every American and everyone else in the world to pay, pay, pay to live! It is a SCAM! It should be termed a criminal action and someday may be!
Man made GW! What a JOKE!!!! Man doesn't even make a pimple on the enviroment of the earth! It is a SCAM and dog is not a dog, but a :sheep!
Furthermore, you can cram that gavel up that big round asshole of yours...should fit perfect!

I bet you as a kid you couldn't wait for the newest edition of Casper, Archie, or Supergirl Comics could ya Doggie? Your Header for this story should have read, *Comrade Gore and Wacko Liberal Enviro winner, released more BULLSHIT!!*

Here is what the more intelligent crowd have to say about this SCAM for POWER & MONEY, led by the Criminal Sonofabitch from Tennessee!!

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=927b9303-802a-23ad-494b-dccb00b51a12&Region_id=&Issue_id=

Note Gore's refusal to take the Energy Pledge, the hypocritical asshole and American Traitor! I was drinking ice tea and I went to the John to choke my chicken and didn't see the CRIMINAL Un American Illegal fund raising?? Get a rope!!

Great article Ringo.

[Wabash]

Algore is a Snake Oil salesman and you libs buy it so fast, that gore had to open his own bank to hold all the money!

You think Bush is a liar and believe Algore....Too Funny!

[Wabash]

It is clear that Wabby is very concerned about Glapbal Warming. He is too frightened to face it head-on, so he has decided to deny that it is exists.

First thing I'm doing April is facing the Enviro Wackos head on(been doing that for 20 years now). I'm also facing the GW alarmists head on with their "Sky is Falling" panic of America and the World!

Global Warming doesn't really exist...it is Climate Change and a regular cycle in Nature!
It's all about an agenda to have us pay more for everything!

[Ringo]

Damn Wabby we may have been all wrong, as I found this amazing footage to BACK the claims of the Uber Left and their vast herd of sheep! I feel so embarrassed but hell I can't with argue with this documentary, as it is hard hittling and blows you & I out of the water!!:sheep:akbar:mw:mw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8E42mIvjzRw

[Wabash]

Outstanding Ringo.....the :sheep are out there!

[sparks]

Outstanding Ringo.....the :sheep are out there!

Yeah, but I'll bet we'd disagree as to who they were. :)

[Wabash]

Yeah, but I'll bet we'd disagree as to who they were. :)

I'd be willing to bet that we might not be as far apart as you would think.:wink
You are not as liberal as you think you are....I could be wrong thou..

[Wabash]

Global Warming is a Political Agenda designed to brainwash and control the masses!
Anyone fool enough to drink the Koolade, I feel sorry for..


Self evident truths:
Oil is King and will be for a long time. The Saudis aren't the enemy...the Democrats are!

[Yellowdogtexan]

Wabby do you worry about walking off the edge of the earth?

As for the orginal piece of crap posted by wabby, here is some real science on the so-called little ice age. Here are some good links showing that the little ice age that is the basis of this theory did not occur. http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/Bradley.pdf and http://iri.columbia.edu/~goddard/EESC_W4400/CC/jones_mann_2004.pdfThe theory behind this cycle appears to the claim that either there is some variation in the earth's orbit or pattern in output from the sun that caused these cycles which according to the above studies do not exist. All of the studies show that the global warming that has occured over the last couple of decades is not explained by any cycle and if fact during this period, the output or heating from the sun has actually declined while temperature have gone up. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6290228.stmA new scientific study concludes that changes in the Sun's output cannot be causing modern-day climate change.

It shows that for the last 20 years, the Sun's output has declined, yet temperatures on Earth have risen.

It also shows that modern temperatures are not determined by the Sun's effect on cosmic rays, as has been claimed.

Writing in the Royal Society's journal Proceedings A, the researchers say cosmic rays may have affected climate in the past, but not the present.

"This should settle the debate," said Mike Lockwood, from the UK's Rutherford-Appleton Laboratory, who carried out the new analysis together with Claus Froehlich from the World Radiation Center in Switzerland.

Dr Lockwood initiated the study partially in response to the TV documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle, broadcast on Britain's Channel Four earlier this year, which featured the cosmic ray hypothesis.

"All the graphs they showed stopped in about 1980, and I knew why, because things diverged after that," he told the BBC News website.

"You can't just ignore bits of data that you don't like," he said.

Warming trend

The scientists' main approach on this new analysis was simple: to look at solar output and cosmic ray intensity over the last 30-40 years, and compare those trends with the graph for global average surface temperature, which has risen by about 0.4C over the period.

The Sun varies on a cycle of about 11 years between periods of high and low activity.

But that cycle comes on top of longer-term trends; and most of the 20th Century saw a slight but steady increase in solar output.

However, in about 1985, that trend appears to have reversed, with solar output declining.

Yet this period has seen temperatures rise as fast as - if not faster than - any time during the previous 100 years.

"This paper reinforces the fact that the warming in the last 20 to 40 years can't have been caused by solar activity," said Dr Piers Forster from Leeds University, a leading contributor to this year's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) assessment of climate science. Solar radiation goes down and yet the temperatures are going up. The increase in temperatures are due to greenhouse gases and the claims that the cycle patterns explain global warming because according to such patterns, temperatures should be declining and not increasing.

I hope that the concept of cause and effect is not too complicated for wabby and ringo to understand. Then again, if we are lucky they will fall of the edge of the imaginary world they live in and we will not hear from them.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Global Warming is a Political Agenda designed to brainwash and control the masses!
Anyone fool enough to drink the Koolade, I feel sorry for..No it is I who feel pity for you. Be careful not to fall of the edge of the earth when you take your next walk.

[Wabash]

No it is I who feel pity for you. Be careful not to fall of the edge of the earth when you take your next walk.

Nope...not worried at all...Fear and Worry about the planet is what Liberals do!
You know, the :sheep like you! THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!

Many Americans, have had enough and are ...

... fed up with sellout politicians who won't defend our borders

... nauseated by a Hollywood that peddles profanity, pornography, and Al Gore and Rosie O'Donnell as "entertainment"

... disgusted by schools that teach our kids more about condoms than about the Constitution

... and outraged by arrogant judges who think it's their job to legislate for us.

But there's a way to stop the madness and return power to the people, where it belongs.

[Wabash]

Much colder weather across the North East and it's not even winter time!

[Wabash]

Wabby do you worry about walking off the edge of the earth?

As for the orginal piece of crap posted by wabby, here is some real science on the so-called little ice age. Here are some good links showing that the little ice age that is the basis of this theory did not occur. http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/Bradley.pdf and http://iri.columbia.edu/~goddard/EESC_W4400/CC/jones_mann_2004.pdfThe theory behind this cycle appears to the claim that either there is some variation in the earth's orbit or pattern in output from the sun that caused these cycles which according to the above studies do not exist. All of the studies show that the global warming that has occured over the last couple of decades is not explained by any cycle and if fact during this period, the output or heating from the sun has actually declined while temperature have gone up. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6290228.stmSolar radiation goes down and yet the temperatures are going up. The increase in temperatures are due to greenhouse gases and the claims that the cycle patterns explain global warming because according to such patterns, temperatures should be declining and not increasing.

I hope that the concept of cause and effect is not too complicated for wabby and ringo to understand. Then again, if we are lucky they will fall of the edge of the imaginary world they live in and we will not hear from them.

Normal Climate Change...NOT catastrophic Global Warming!
You are just another alarmist ydt...promoting the hysteria!

[Wabash]

Funny thing about scientists and many other folks...they succumb to Human Nature and don't want to be ostracized by their peers. So instead of bucking the trend, they just go along with the status quo.....

Some actually do separate themselves from the herd of sheep and have the courage to step up with a different point of view. That means GW is still in debate and still in a state of flux, except for those :sheep that believe it.

[Oceanbreeze]

Nope...not worried at all...Fear and Worry about the planet is what Liberals do!
You know, the :sheep like you! THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!

Many Americans, have had enough and are ...

... fed up with sellout politicians who won't defend our borders

... nauseated by a Hollywood that peddles profanity, pornography, and Al Gore and Rosie O'Donnell as "entertainment"

... disgusted by schools that teach our kids more about condoms than about the Constitution

... and outraged by arrogant judges who think it's their job to legislate for us.

But there's a way to stop the madness and return power to the people, where it belongs.

:paclap :paclap :paclap :paclap

[Wabash]

Thanks Ocean...it's nice to be appreciated by someone who actually thinks on their own, instead of mouthing script from the DNC!

[Wabash]

Parallels......

Back in the 80s, we had a guru type, here in Oregon, named BHAGWAN SHREE RAJNEESH. http://www.religioustolerance.org/rajneesh.htm

Of course, like so many religious types, he was a Fraud!

The most amazing fact to me was not his so called teachings of tolerance and enlightenment....but the so called educated people, doctors, lawyers, judges, CEOs and other business types, Hollywood stars, as well as commoners, who bought into the bullshit! Much as the farce of global Warming is today.

I really have to give credit to Algore and the Bhagwan for their dual abilities in duping folks....Even the so called enlightened and Educated ones!

Like I always say...follow the money!

[Ringo]

Parallels......

Back in the 80s, we had a guru type, here in Oregon, named BHAGWAN SHREE RAJNEESH. http://www.religioustolerance.org/rajneesh.htm

Of course, like so many religious types, he was a Fraud!

The most amazing fact to me was not his so called teachings of tolerance and enlightenment....but the so called educated people, doctors, lawyers, judges, CEOs and other business types, Hollywood stars, as well as commoners, who bought into the bullshit! Much as the farce of global Warming is today.

I really have to give credit to Algore and the Bhagwan for their dual abilities in duping folks....Even the so called enlightened and Educated ones!

Hell remember how easy it was to convince a stoned group of mopheads from England, that the Ravi Shankar actually played fucking MUSIC???

[Ringo]

No it is I who feel pity for you. Be careful not to fall of the edge of the earth when you take your next walk.

Hard to argue with you Doggie when you follow this brilliant idiot!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h4vNCZEWLJU

[Yellowdogtexan]

Since this thread is completely science free on the part of the flat earth crowd and is full of incredibly stupid and ignorant comments, it is time to move it.

[Yellowdogtexan]

Funny thing about scientists and many other folks...they succumb to Human Nature and don't want to be ostracized by their peers. So instead of bucking the trend, they just go along with the status quo......What a incredibly stupid comment (even from wabby). wabby has withdrawn from the real world and is happy in his make believe fantasy world where global warming is a hoax. I like the real world.

Wabby, again you really should be careful about faling off the edge of the world. When does the flat earth society holds its meetings?

[Oceanbreeze]

Since this thread is completely science free on the part of the flat earth crowd and is full of incredibly stupid and ignorant comments, it is time to move it.


YOU only moved it because WE don't agree with you. Dang...I can't even bring myself to say it. :sparks2

[Yellowdogtexan]

Not at all. This was becoming a very stupid discussion by some true idiots who are clearly members of the flat earth society. wabby and ringo are too ignorant of science to understand the issues and the materials that they have posted are so stupid that it was no longer funny.

You are welcome to be part of the flat earth society and to live in an alternative reality where science does not matter. I like the real world and I find people who ignore science and the real world to be silly and amusing.

[The Q]

*ahem*

No discussion on this board is "stupid". And we don't move discussions just because our moderators think they are stupid.

However, since the discussion was becoming heated and insults tossed around, I would have moved it anyway. :)

ADQ

[Lone Laugher]

Nope...not worried at all...Fear and Worry about the planet is what Liberals do!
You know, the :sheep like you! THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!

Many Americans, have had enough and are ...

... fed up with sellout politicians who won't defend our borders

... nauseated by a Hollywood that peddles profanity, pornography, and Al Gore and Rosie O'Donnell as "entertainment"

... disgusted by schools that teach our kids more about condoms than about the Constitution

... and outraged by arrogant judges who think it's their job to legislate for us.

But there's a way to stop the madness and return power to the people, where it belongs.


Shame on you.....taking credit for that and accepting Oceans applause....you did not write that....cite your source. You need to stop copying shit and acting like you wrote it....GEEZ!!!

[The Q]

What?!! Is it time to dust off the crying black Jesus avatar again? :waiting

ADQ

[Oceanbreeze]

Shame on you.....taking credit for that and accepting Oceans applause....you did not write that....cite your source. You need to stop copying shit and acting like you wrote it....GEEZ!!!

I don't care who wrote it, it's the ideology that I agree with.

[Lone Laugher]

I don't care who wrote it, it's the ideology that I agree with.

You should care.

[The Q]

I don't think he said shame on you OB. :lol

ADQ

[Oceanbreeze]

You should care.

I do care, but it's the ideology I agree with. Alot of times words and thoughts are borrowed from others.

Such as this from AWE:

"We need a new bumper sticker that states

"Al Gore said it, I believe it, that settles it"

[Wabash]

Since this thread is completely science free on the part of the flat earth crowd and is full of incredibly stupid and ignorant comments, it is time to move it.

Move it up ur ass if you want to...

What a incredibly stupid comment (even from wabby). wabby has withdrawn from the real world and is happy in his make believe fantasy world where global warming is a hoax. I like the real world.

Wabby, again you really should be careful about faling off the edge of the world. When does the flat earth society holds its meetings?

Yep...it's ALL about the science and the man with common sense can accept it or not...I choose not! What I said was right on the money...scientist are like anyone else and play follow the leader...right off the edge themselves!

Not at all. This was becoming a very stupid discussion by some true idiots who are clearly members of the flat earth society. wabby and ringo are too ignorant of science to understand the issues and the materials that they have posted are so stupid that it was no longer funny.

You are welcome to be part of the flat earth society and to live in an alternative reality where science does not matter. I like the real world and I find people who ignore science and the real world to be silly and amusing.

I'm a member of think for yourself society, and warming and cooling of the earth has been going on for eons! We are in a warmup cycle and man has little or no bearing on it!

Shame on you.....taking credit for that and accepting Oceans applause....you did not write that....cite your source. You need to stop copying shit and acting like you wrote it....GEEZ!!!

Shame on me? It's all true and I agree with it. I never claimed I wrote it directly, but it's stuff I've been saying for years! Actually, I think Laura Ingram copied me!
So, do you subscribe to Human Events or did you buy Laura's # 1 Best selling book, Power to the People?

I do care, but it's the ideology I agree with. Alot of times words and thoughts are borrowed from others.

Such as this from AWE:

"We need a new bumper sticker that states

"Al Gore said it, I believe it, that settles it"

Ya, talk about non science dawg...you idiots believe anything Clintons or Gore say.......

[Trueblue]

Wabash, practitioner of faith-based science.

[Trueblue]

I do care, but it's the ideology I agree with. Alot of times words and thoughts are borrowed from others.

Such as this from AWE:

"We need a new bumper sticker that states

"Al Gore said it, I believe it, that settles it"

But that's silly, I don't believe it because Al Gore said it, and neither does anyone else that I've ever heard of. You are projecting the GW deniers beliefs onto us-the deniers deny GW on the basis of faith, they reject science.

[Wabash]

...no one here has picked up on the sobbing eskimo girl yet! Talk about being brainwashed and indoctrinated with liberal BS on Global Warming!

[Lone Laugher]

Well, Wabby...neither. I read your post...figured that it was too well written for you to have written and called you on it.

Then I looked it up and found the Human Events page. Isn't that a hoot!

You did claim to have written it by omitting the source...it is a very sneaky and slimey thing to do.

[Saguaro]

This is being merged with the other GW thread

[Oceanbreeze]

But that's silly, I don't believe it because Al Gore said it, and neither does anyone else that I've ever heard of. You are projecting the GW deniers beliefs onto us-the deniers deny GW on the basis of faith, they reject science.

I believe in science, I also believe GW is a political hoax.

[Trueblue]

I believe in science, I also believe GW is a political hoax.

I don't see how whoever is behind this alleged hoax has managed to get so many scientists to go along with them. Or how they managed to get the polar ice caps to cooperate.

[Wabash]

Well, Wabby...neither. I read your post...figured that it was too well written for you to have written and called you on it.

Then I looked it up and found the Human Events page. Isn't that a hoot!

You did claim to have written it by omitting the source...it is a very sneaky and slimey thing to do.

Big deal...I claimed nothing...and you don't think I could write like that? I have ...many, many times...interesting that you knew where to look! You gonna make me believe you don't go to that site often?...Did you get a discount on the book?

TB...the hoax is not the fact that climate change is occuring, but passing it off as GW and a Man Made cause.....that's the laughable part!

[Trueblue]

Big deal...I claimed nothing...and you don't think I could write like that? I have many, many times...

TB...the hoax is not the fact that climate change is occuring, but passing it off as a Man Made cause.....that's the laughable part!

You believe it's natural based entirely on faith.

[Wabash]

It is normal, every few decades or every few hundred years, climate change! Nothing w/o more empirical evidence!

[Wabash]

You believe it's natural based entirely on faith.

Nope, on what has been said thus far...it has much discussion ahead!
There's been too much written to the contrary, to go all skeeered....like you libs.

I'm looking at all the science and I'm not convinced!

[Trueblue]

It is normal, every few decades or every few hundred yeats climate change! Nothing more w/o empiracle evidence!

The empirical evidence is overwhelming.

Yes, the climate does go in cycles, but they usually take much longer to occur, and ecosystems have time to adjust.

If you think about how the world works, you have to realize that when you change many things, nature will respond. The energy usage of today is radically different from one hundred years ago. Why wouldn't it have some impact.

And even if this was entirely natural, we would still need to respond and make changes to protect ourselves.

[Wabash]

The empirical evidence is overwhelming.

Yes, the climate does go in cycles, but they usually take much longer to occur, and ecosystems have time to adjust.

If you think about how the world works, you have to realize that when you change many things, nature will respond. The energy usage of today is radically different from one hundred years ago. Why wouldn't it have some impact.

And even if this was entirely natural, we would still need to respond and make changes to protect ourselves.

I don't agree...I think you and others are way to arrogant about the impact of man/woman! I think the impact of man is as a fart in a hurricane...if a guy doesn't claim it, no one would be the wiser!
There are just too many scientists bucking the trend to just roll over and say uncle! It seems on it's face that it is overwhelming, but in fact, it is not!

[Lone Laugher]

Big deal...I claimed nothing...and you don't think I could write like that? I have ...many, many times...interesting that you knew where to look! You gonna make me believe you don't go to that site often?...Did you get a discount on the book?

TB...the hoax is not the fact that climate change is occuring, but passing it off as GW and a Man Made cause.....that's the laughable part!

No Wabby, I KNOW you can't write like that. It is funny that you don't believe what I am saying....when it is you that is clearly a liar.

[Yellowdogtexan]

I don't agreeWho cares if you agree or do not agree. You are too ignorant about science for your opinion to have any meaning. Science is about objective facts and you live in your own world where you are happy to ignore objective facts. Again, as Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore has stated, we shoud not pay attention to idiots who think that the earth is flat and that includes wabby. :ydt

[Trueblue]

I don't agree...I think you and others are way to arrogant about the impact of man/woman! I think the impact of man is as a fart in a hurricane...if a guy doesn't claim it, no one would be the wiser!
There are just too many scientists bucking the trend to just roll over and say uncle! It seems on it's face that it is overwhelming, but in fact, it is not!

It's hardly arrogant to say that human beings have damaged something. How does that flatter humans?

The idea that we can have little impact on the world is interesting-I guess you haven't heard of nuclear bombs.

There are very few actual scientists who disagree with global warming. You think there are because the few who do get a disproportionate amount of airtime.

And the evidence is absolutely overwhelming. That's why the EPA used the term "virtually certain". That's what virtually certain means-that the evidence is overwhelming.

[Lone Laugher]

Want to know how I knew where to look....just type the following in your search engine...I use YAHOO:

... fed up with sellout politicians who won't defend our borders


You'll see it there. You are such an idiot.

[Yellowdogtexan]

I believe in science, I also believe GW is a political hoax.Yes but you do not understand science and so your opinion should be ignored. Again as Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore has stated, we shoud not pay attention to idiots who think that the earth is flat

[Wabash]

It's hardly arrogant to say that human beings have damaged something. How does that flatter humans?

The idea that we can have little impact on the world is interesting-I guess you haven't heard of nuclear bombs.

There are very few actual scientists who disagree with global warming. You think there are because the few who do get a disproportionate amount of airtime.

And the evidence is absolutely overwhelming. That's why the EPA used the term "virtually certain". That's what virtually certain means-that the evidence is overwhelming.

Not that they damaged anything...it's arrogant to think that we actually have that much power TO damage something! We don't...volcanos do a lot more damage annually than the few nukes that have been set off.
Overwhelming only because of the Leftist Propaganda machine that concentrates on one type of science or a portion of science, but not on other types or portions!!
The EPA is a huge bureaucratic nightmare that is so often full of shit and has done more bad than you realize! Any large govt. body is a nightmare...the IRS is another one!

Want to know how I knew where to look....just type the following in your search engine...I use YAHOO:

... fed up with sellout politicians who won't defend our borders


You'll see it there. You are such an idiot.
Just not puter savvy that much....and never use Yahoo, I use Google...but, thanks for the tip.

Yes but you do not understand science and so your opinion should be ignored. Again as Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore has stated, we shoud not pay attention to idiots who think that the earth is flat

Ya, but Gore is an idiot reinvented!

[Wabash]

Yes but you do not understand science and so your opinion should be ignored. Again as Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore has stated, we shoud not pay attention to idiots who think that the earth is flat

I think we all understand the science just fine dawg...we just don't buy into it like you do! You are a :sheep....I am a:pblade:rofl

[Saguaro]

Wabash , have you ever taken a class on the ecology? It is a very fragile thing the ecology

[Lone Laugher]

Wabbass, are you going to apologize for plagarizing earlier in this thread? Will you admit that you copied another person's comments from another site and pasted them here as your own? Will you admit that you even accepted congratulations for those comments from another TPA member...still claiming them as your own?

[sparks]

Wabbass, are you going to apologize for plagarizing earlier in this thread? Will you admit that you copied another person's comments from another site and pasted them here as your own? Will you admit that you even accepted congratulations for those comments from another TPA member...still claiming them as your own?

He admitted earlier they weren't his words. :shrug

[Lone Laugher]

Well....I guess I could be accused of badgering him so I'll let it go......but he did not admit to plagiarsm....he claimed that he was not attempting to pass the words off as his own.

:deadhorse

It may be asking too much to expect honesty....even on an essentially anonymous discussion forum.

[Wabash]

Wabbass, are you going to apologize for plagarizing earlier in this thread? Will you admit that you copied another person's comments from another site and pasted them here as your own? Will you admit that you even accepted congratulations for those comments from another TPA member...still claiming them as your own?

I'm not seeking any monetary gain nor noteriety, nor any gain for that matter.....I merely do what a lot of others do here...cut and paste with no note as to the source...example would be many of the DNC talking points used here...I know they are DNC 's words..but I don't make a big deal about it! Just because you have a hard on for me and I call you on the bullshit, you don't have to get into a huff! Well, on second thought...huff away!

Wabash , have you ever taken a class on the ecology? It is a very fragile thing the ecology
I know that Sag and one volcano erupting or one flood or one hurricane or one giant fire does more damage than man could ever begin to do! Indonesia alone has many volcanoes.
Ever seen the movie Krakatoa East of Java!

Well....I guess I could be accused of badgering him so I'll let it go......but he did not admit to plagiarsm....he claimed that he was not attempting to pass the words off as his own.

:deadhorse

It may be asking too much to expect honesty....even on an essentially anonymous discussion forum.

There you have it.."essentially anonymous discussion forum."
So like I said, someone probably liked it when I said it years ago, when they were little...and copied MY words!
See, the thing is, there is no way for you to prove that I didn't say that or something just like that years ago! When, in fact, I have, many times even before the internet existed!
Your indignation ...read Huff, is so noted!

[Lone Laugher]

"So like I said, someone probably liked it when I said it years ago, when they were little...and copied MY words!"---Wabby

:cuckoo

[Oceanbreeze]

Yes but you do not understand science and so your opinion should be ignored. Again as Vice President and Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore has stated, we shoud not pay attention to idiots who think that the earth is flat

I don't associate with rude arrogant individuals. I come from a very long family line of Ivy league MD's, JD', ect.. Amazing, the holidays are quite agreeable. Then again, we are all comfortable in our skin. Good Bye.

[Wabash]

"So like I said, someone probably liked it when I said it years ago, when they were little...and copied MY words!"---Wabby

:cuckoo

Stick it in your arse numbnuts! I've been saying the same thing for 25-30 years now...I just threw em into the mix to set you off! What, you think you are talking to some neophyte? Not hardly!

[Wabash]

I don't associate with rude arrogant individuals. I come from a very long family line of Ivy league MD's, JD', ect.. Amazing, the holidays are quite agreeable. Then again, we are all comfortable in our skin. Good Bye.

Aww Ocean...dawg is really a shark...attys. are all like that! Ya just have to condsider the source...thanks foir your support, I don't get much of it here...he's just a little boy hiding behind a keyboard...lots of those around!

[Sweet Tart]

I just wanted to say 3 things...

First, its funny how the normal reaction a human has, when faced with someone they feel doesn't understand what he/she is saying, is to raise his/her voice. Online, the use of bold, italics and larger fonts is the same thing.

But, its even funnier when other people watch the screaming maniac (oh, like Howard Dean, sadly enough) and they just don't take him/her seriously anymore. I'd like to give you a megaphone and put you out on the street corner at this point :para

On the flip side, I would really like to applaud Wabby for his fine usage of the multi-quote function in this post http://forums.thepoliticalasylum.com/showpost.php?p=155333&postcount=38

It does a global warming geek sheep, like myself, proud to see the software used as it is intended :yep

:frolic

[Wabash]

I just wanted to say 3 things...

First, its funny how the normal reaction a human has, when faced with someone they feel doesn't understand what he/she is saying, is to raise his/her voice. Online, the use of bold, italics and larger fonts is the same thing.

But, its even funnier when other people watch the screaming maniac (oh, like Howard Dean, sadly enough) and they just don't take him/her seriously anymore. I'd like to give you a megaphone and put you out on the street corner at this point :para

On the flip side, I would really like to applaud Wabby for his fine usage of the multi-quote function in this post http://forums.thepoliticalasylum.com/showpost.php?p=155333&postcount=38

It does a global warming geek sheep, like myself, proud to see the software used as it is intended :yep

:frolic



Well, you can thank Kurtz! Kurtz ragged on me until I got it right!:electric

As for the rest, if you don't want someone to use what's available....WHY Make it Available?????????? I use all the weapons afforded to me!

[Yellowdogtexan]

I'm not seeking any monetary gain nor noteriety, nor any gain for that matter.....I merely do what a lot of others do here...cut and paste with no note as to the source...example would be many of the DNC talking points used here...I know they are DNC 's words..but I don't make a big deal about it! Tjhis excuse is just as stupid as bluedog's stupid excuse for the same act. It is wrong and stupid to steal the words of another person and try to pass them off as your own. It is not that hard to either put the copied words in quote format or to post a link. Not doing so is just plain dishonest.

As noted earlier, it was obvious that these were not wabby's words. It is simply dishonest to copy or steal the words of another with providing proper attribution of the authorship.

I had no respect for wabby before this excuse. It is possible that I have less respect for him now.

[Yellowdogtexan]

"So like I said, someone probably liked it when I said it years ago, when they were little...and copied MY words!"---Wabby

:cuckooThis is the same excuse used by The Reverend on the Perfecting Jews thread. The only article that he or she cited was based on a christian so-called or pretend scholar who claimed that satan went back in time to plant elements of christian mythology in pagan religions and that it wsa really the pagan religions who copied or plagiarize christianity. That claim was so stupid that it made my day because it was so funny.

Again, plagiarism is simply wrong and dishonest.

[Yellowdogtexan]

I think we all understand the science just fine dawg...we just don't buy into it like you do!No it is very clear that you do not understand science and are afraid of science. I am really serious that I am concerned that you do not live in the real world. In your silly world science may not matter but I live in the real world. :ydt

Again, as noted by Vice President Al Gore (did you hear that he won the nobel peace prize), we are wasting too much time listening to idiots who believe the earth is flat. Wabby, ringo and oceanbreeze are in the flat earth society and so their opinions on global warming should really be ignored. :ydt

[Wabash]

No it is very clear that you do not understand science and are afraid of science. I am really serious that I am concerned that you do not live in the real world. In your silly world science may not matter but I live in the real world. :ydt

Again, as noted by Vice President Al Gore (did you hear that he won the nobel peace prize), we are wasting too much time listening to idiots who believe the earth is flat. Wabby, ringo and oceanbreeze are in the flat earth society and so their opinions on global warming should really be ignored. :ydt

So should you...! You Holier than Thou Dipshit! You never had any respect for me anyway...so don't make it sound like you did..
Go Fuck Yourself...again...
Motion dismissed!!:ydt

[AYFR]

Al Gore Proven Wrong As Usual: Pre-Historic Warmer Greenland Did Not Melt Icecap

COPENHAGEN July 6 (LPAC)--A new study by Danish scientists proves the official climate doomsday theory is wrong, according to reports in today's Danish press. In movies like Gore's "The Inconvenient Truth," it is stipulated how an increasing temperature cause the melting of the Greenland icecap, causing much higher sea levels. But a new study published in the scientific journal Science by Professor Eske Willerslev from Biological Institute at the Copenhagen University, shows a much different story. By investigating DNA found in old ice cores, the study proves that during the Eemian interglacial period 125,000 years ago, when the temperature of Greenland was an estimated 5 degrees C higher than today, the southern part of Greenland was not melted.

"Up until now it has been thought that the Southern part of Greenland and big parts of the Northern was ice-free in the so-called Eem-period 125,000 years ago," Eske Willerslev is quoted in Jyllands-Posten. "But all the ice in the Southern part didn't melt. That contradicts the ice models used up until now. And it indicates that the ice in the Southern part of Greenland probably is more stable in relation to climate changes than has been anticipated up until now."

The 36-year old professor is a world expert in extracting DNA material from organisms found in permafrost areas. Together with researcher Jorgen Peder Steffensen and Professor Dorthe Dahl-Jensen from the Ice and Climate-Group at the Niels Bohr University, they have dated fossil DNA trapped in the ice to be 450,000-800,000 years old. The fossils come from a much warmer and happier period of the biology of Greenland when the climate resembled that of Southern Sweden today. That happy period of Greenland's biology ended around 500,000 years ago.
http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2007/07/07/al-gore-proven-wrong-usual-pre-historic-warmer-greenland-did.html

Just like sheep following a shepard YTD will follow Gore no matter what. :sheep

[Lone Laugher]

Stick it in your arse numbnuts! I've been saying the same thing for 25-30 years now...I just threw em into the mix to set you off! What, you think you are talking to some neophyte? Not hardly!

Wabby....you'd think that someone with so many years of experience would be able to understand. I am not concerned with whether or not you believe the words to be true. I am not concerned with whether or not you have uttererd similar sentiment in the past. I am concerned with the FACT that you pretended to be the author of a collection of words which, in fact, were authored by someone else. You then accepted praise for those words and still did not cite the author.

Then, when called on it, you denied it. You even went as far as to say, not jokingly, that the author of the words probably heard you say them when they were young...and thus had copied you. Crazy.

You tried to turn it around on me....claiming that I lied about how I came to know of your dishonesty. The fact is, it was written so coherently that it could not have been written by you. Your ability to use the English language is not nearly good enough to compose that passage.

You have also used the common liars defense that "everyone else does it, why shouldn't I". Disgraceful.

Finally, you resorted to simple name-calling....much like a child who has been caught cheating at hide-n-seek might.

And...you still have not apologized to everyone here. Too bad.

[AYFR]

Wabby....you'd think that someone with so many years of experience would be able to understand. I am not concerned with whether or not you believe the words to be true. I am not concerned with whether or not you have uttererd similar sentiment in the past. I am concerned with the FACT that you pretended to be the author of a collection of words which, in fact, were authored by someone else. You then accepted praise for those words and still did not cite the author.

Then, when called on it, you denied it. You even went as far as to say, not jokingly, that the author of the words probably heard you say them when they were young...and thus had copied you. Crazy.

You tried to turn it around on me....claiming that I lied about how I came to know of your dishonesty. The fact is, it was written so coherently that it could not have been written by you. Your ability to use the English language is not nearly good enough to compose that passage.

You have also used the common liars defense that "everyone else does it, why shouldn't I". Disgraceful.

Finally, you resorted to simple name-calling....much like a child who has been caught cheating at hide-n-seek might.

And...you still have not apologized to everyone here. Too bad.

I may be wrong but I do believe it came from Laura Ingram. It was I believe in her new book Power to the People
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/27971.html

“If you're like most Americans, you've had enough. You're fed up with sell-out politicians who won't defend our borders; a Hollywood that peddles profanity, pornography, and Al Gore and Rosie O'Donnell as ‘entertainment’; schools that teach our kids more about condoms than about the Constitution; and snooty judges who think it's their job to legislate for us. But there's a way to stop the madness and return power to the people - where it belongs. Laura Ingraham, the most-listened-to woman in political talk radio, shows us how to take back what is ours. In POWER TO THE PEOPLE she provides a riotous, take-no-prisoners journey through our besieged culture and gives us a battle plan to re-make it anew, the way the Founders intended – strong, patriotic, pro-family, and unapologetically God-fearing. Part expose, part practical manifesto, and wholly entertaining, POWER TO THE PEOPLE is written in the style of Laura's fast-paced, no excuses, action-oriented radio show, weaving in personal tales of her own struggle to right the culture and the politics of our country: including how she derailed the appointment of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court, mounted a grassroots campaign against corporate America's sponsorship of one of pop music's biggest and most profane rap stars, and torpedoed the amnesty bill that would have granted instant legal status to millions of illegal aliens. And for the first time, Laura also reveals how she found her faith during a moment of deep loss, along with poignant details of her year long battle with breast cancer. Over the years Laura has jousted with everyone from Michael Moore to Bill Maher to the Dixie Chicks. She once worked in-side the ‘dinosaur’ media (CBS News and MSNBC) and knows the deceptive techniques practiced by those who ‘report' the news. In POWER TO THE PEOPLE, she holds back nothing, and takes the fight beyond Right versus Left to show you how to reclaim the culture and win. If you're tired of bewailing America's course, if you want to know what you can do to protect your family and restore our country, POWER TO THE PEOPLE is the book for you.”

[Lone Laugher]

You are right, Rev. That where it came from.

[AYFR]

Thank you Lone Laughter, taking credit for work that isn't yours is just WRONG and illegal to boot.

http://hnn.us/resources/plagiarize2.jpg

This should be Wabash's new AV

[Yellowdogtexan]

http://www.larouchepac.com/news/2007/07/07/al-gore-proven-wrong-usual-pre-historic-warmer-greenland-did.htmlJust like sheep following a shepard YTD will follow Gore no matter what. :sheepLyndon Larouch is the source of this tripe. WOW. I thought that he was still in jail. The larouchies are truly members fo the flat earth society and that would be one of their saner beliefs (I love the concept that the Queen of England controls the narcotics trade).

Again, the IPCC and the sane scientists in the world have made the best possible assessment and have looked at all of the real data. Claims like this were examined by the IPCC and rejected for good reason. As Vice President and Nobel Prize Winner Al Gore as noted, we should ignore the idiots who think that the world is flat and focus on the real science which shows that man made global warming is real

[Wabash]

Wabby....you'd think that someone with so many years of experience would be able to understand. I am not concerned with whether or not you believe the words to be true. I am not concerned with whether or not you have uttererd similar sentiment in the past. I am concerned with the FACT that you pretended to be the author of a collection of words which, in fact, were authored by someone else. You then accepted praise for those words and still did not cite the author.

Then, when called on it, you denied it. You even went as far as to say, not jokingly, that the author of the words probably heard you say them when they were young...and thus had copied you. Crazy.

You tried to turn it around on me....claiming that I lied about how I came to know of your dishonesty. The fact is, it was written so coherently that it could not have been written by you. Your ability to use the English language is not nearly good enough to compose that passage.

You have also used the common liars defense that "everyone else does it, why shouldn't I". Disgraceful.

Finally, you resorted to simple name-calling....much like a child who has been caught cheating at hide-n-seek might.

And...you still have not apologized to everyone here. Too bad.

Apologized to who...my enemies here?

I may be wrong but I do believe it came from Laura Ingram. It was I believe in her new book Power to the People
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/27971.html

Thank you Lone Laughter, taking credit for work that isn't yours is just WRONG and illegal to boot.

http://hnn.us/resources/plagiarize2.jpg

This should be Wabash's new AV

Old news Rev...I already admitted to that yesterday!
I maintain that plagerism does not apply here...I did not make any claim that they were my words, I just typed them into a post. I use a lot of words here that were uttered by someone else, we all do! Big deal. Now if I were getting paid for this work, or soliciting an award, different story.
I received a pat on the back and thanked the person for it.....the words were the truth, they were real, and I used them. I am under no obligation here to iedentify all verbage that I use! Don't like it? Tough shit!

This was just an attempt by LL to stir up shit........I'll catch him on something in the future.....I'll be watching you LL...

[Ringo]

Not at all. This was becoming a very stupid discussion by some true idiots who are clearly members of the flat earth society. wabby and ringo are too ignorant of science to understand the issues and the materials that they have posted are so stupid that it was no longer funny.

You are welcome to be part of the flat earth society and to live in an alternative reality where science does not matter. I like the real world and I find people who ignore science and the real world to be silly and amusing.

Who pays people to sit around and coin STUPID ASSED phrases like you spout all the time, like "FLAT EARTH" blah blah blah!! I remember the Lefties were fascinated last year with the word GRAVITAS, and it was a contest between Charley & Brian to see who could get the stupid assed word in more times than the other!

See Mano-Mano, you would never call me stupid, as I care less about your damn Jr College Law Degree, as you would learn street education 101! People give you facts and try to have fun and you act like you have a cob up your butt or think you are better! Hell your a coward, I asked you 3 times to pick a subject for debate, and you tuck your yellow tail between your legs and run!:godzilla

Man up someday, and you might get a little respect!!

[Trueblue]

Not that they damaged anything...it's arrogant to think that we actually have that much power TO damage something! We don't...volcanos do a lot more damage annually than the few nukes that have been set off.

It's not arrogant to believe that we can screw something up. This argument is one of the most bizarre of all. How is it a sign of conceit to believe that humans mess things up?

The evidence is not overwhelming because the scientists look at it-you've got it backwards. The scientists look at the evidence because it's overwhelming.

[Oceanbreeze]

Who pays people to sit around and coin STUPID ASSED phrases like you spout all the time, like "FLAT EARTH" blah blah blah!! I remember the Lefties were fascinated last year with the word GRAVITAS, and it was a contest between Charley & Brian to see who could get the stupid assed word in more times than the other!

See Mano-Mano, you would never call me stupid, as I care less about your damn Jr College Law Degree, as you would learn street education 101! People give you facts and try to have fun and you act like you have a cob up your butt or think you are better! Hell your a coward, I asked you 3 times to pick a subject for debate, and you tuck your yellow tail between your legs and run!:godzilla

Man up someday, and you might get a little respect!!

Did my ears hear Cooley Law School? :lmao

[AYFR]

Lyndon Larouch is the source of this tripe. WOW. I thought that he was still in jail. The larouchies are truly members fo the flat earth society and that would be one of their saner beliefs (I love the concept that the Queen of England controls the narcotics trade).

Again, the IPCC and the sane scientists in the world have made the best possible assessment and have looked at all of the real data. Claims like this were examined by the IPCC and rejected for good reason. As Vice President and Nobel Prize Winner Al Gore as noted, we should ignore the idiots who think that the world is flat and focus on the real science which shows that man made global warming is real

Again I rest my case. :ydt Anyone that disagree with Yellow suddenly is stupid no matter what degrees they have.

His view of the world is it is either his way or no way. Pathetic really that he is unable to see other sides of a story or view.

I quess that is what it takes to be a lawyer though.

[Trueblue]

YTD is right, information from Lyndon LaRouche is suspect.

[AYFR]

TB any information we post y'all say is suspect when it comes to GW.

Doesn't matter who is it from scientists to regular people.

[Trueblue]

TB any information we post y'all say is suspect when it comes to GW.

Doesn't matter who is it from scientists to regular people.

First of all, check out Lyndon LaRouche and let me know if you find him credible.

Second of all, yes, most of what you post about GW is suspect, because the evidence for GW is so overwhelming. It's happening right now, faster than was expected.

Here's an article from Fox News, no less:

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere are increasing much faster and will be harder to control than scientists have predicted, a study has found.

An international team of researchers has found that, since 2000, the rate at which CO2 has been pumped into the atmosphere is 35 percent greater than most climate-change models have allowed for.

The conclusions have serious implications for forecasts of how much and how quickly the world's temperature will rise and mean that global warming will be harder and more expensive to control than feared.

The results also mean that international efforts to bring CO2 emissions under control will need to be more far-reaching.

Professor Nicholas Owens, of the British Antarctic Survey (BAS), said that the findings were so worrying that they made previous widely accepted forecasts of climate change seem unduly optimistic.

"It turns out that global-warming critics were right when they said that global climate models did not do a good job at predicting climate change," said Robock. "But what has been wrong recently is that the climate is changing even faster than the models said. In fact, Arctic sea ice is melting much faster than any models predicted, and sea level is rising much faster than IPCC previously predicted."


More at the link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304272,00.html

[AYFR]

But I never disgarded GW just that man caused it.

[Trueblue]

But I never disgarded GW just that man caused it.

If you understand that article, then you know that the evidence for GW caused by human activity is overwhelming.

[AYFR]

I read the article but I still don't agree that man caused GW.

I also don't believe regardless Gore's claims that the seas are going to rise 20 feet either

[Trueblue]

I am not a fan of faith-based environmental decisions.

You see the evidence, but you reject it on faith.

No reason to call any of this "Gore's claim". Gore's just the messenger.

[Trueblue]

At least faith based is what I'd call it. Refusal to believe in the face of evidence, for political reasons.

[Oceanbreeze]

Science isn't written in stone it's always evolving. One minute everyone is on the bandwagon the next minute they jump off. They can't even agree on the human body, how can they agree on an entire planet, especially since anyone can be bought out for anything? :sad

[Wabash]

I am not a fan of faith-based environmental decisions.

You see the evidence, but you reject it on faith.

No reason to call any of this "Gore's claim". Gore's just the messenger.

Follow the money...

Science isn't written in stone it's always evolving. One minute everyone is on the bandwagon the next minute they jump off. They can't even agree on the human body, how can they agree on an entire planet, especially since anyone can be bought out for anything? :sad

See above.....

[AYFR]

As for the 20 feet theory

http://www.cgfi.org/cgficommentary/Will-Sea-Levels-Rise

Global sea level is rising at rates of about 4.5 inches per 100 years, although the exact rate is the subject of considerable debate. This rise in global sea level has been occurring since the last glacial maxima about 18,000 years ago. At the glacial maxima, global sea level was slightly more than 400 feet below present levels. During much of the intervening time, global sea level rose at rates several times the present rate.
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/1995/95_06_16.html

Then there is this again

What's Not Certain?

Important scientific questions remain about how much warming will occur, how fast it will occur, and how the warming will affect the rest of the climate system including precipitation patterns and storms. Answering these questions will require advances in scientific knowledge in a number of areas:

Improving understanding of natural climatic variations, changes in the sun's energy, land-use changes, the warming or cooling effects of pollutant aerosols, and the impacts of changing humidity and cloud cover.

Determining the relative contribution to climate change of human activities and natural causes.

Projecting future greenhouse emissions and how the climate system will respond within a narrow range.

Improving understanding of the potential for rapid or abrupt climate change.

Believe it or not, Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (CO2). This in fact is the greatest deception in the history of science. We are wasting time, energy and trillions of dollars while creating unnecessary fear and consternation over an issue with no scientific justification. For example, Environment Canada brags about spending $3.7 billion in the last five years dealing with climate change almost all on propaganda trying to defend an indefensible scientific position while at the same time closing weather stations and failing to meet legislated pollution targets.

No sensible person seeks conflict, especially with governments, but if we don't pursue the truth, we are lost as individuals and as a society. That is why I insist on saying that there is no evidence that we are, or could ever cause global climate change. And, recently, Yuri A. Izrael, Vice President of the United Nations sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) confirmed this statement. So how has the world come to believe that something is wrong?
http://www.sitewave.net/news/s49p1828.htm

AND SINCE y'all like the IPCC so much

Yuri A. Izrael ( vice-chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).)
In dissenting with the scientific opinion on climate change, Izrael has stated, "climate change is obvious, but science has not yet been able to identify the causes of it,"[6] and, "there is no proven link between human activity and global warming."[7] This seems to contrast the IPCC conclusion that "most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely [confidence level >90%] due to the observed increase in anthropogenic [human] greenhouse gas concentrations."[8]

Izrael agrees with the IPCC predictions for future climate change, stating, "Global temperatures will likely rise by 1.4-5.8 degrees during the next 100 years. The average increase will be three degrees. I do not think that this threatens mankind. Sea levels, due to rise by 47 cm in the 21st century, will not threaten port cities." He also states, "I think the panic over global warming is totally unjustified. There is no serious threat to the climate," and, "There is no need to dramatize the anthropogenic impact, because the climate has always been subject to change under Nature's influence, even when humanity did not even exist."[7] Additionally, he does not believe the 0.6 °C (1.08 °F) rise in temperature observed in the last 100 years is a threat, stating, "there is no scientifically sound evidence of the negative processes that allegedly begin to take place at such temperatures."[7]

Instead of decreasing carbon dioxide, he argues, aerosol injections in to the stratosphere would be a more effective way to mitigate global warming.[9] He appears to favor adaption over mitigation, arguing, "The people of Bangladesh, who live at sea level, may face problems if the Indian Ocean rises. Still, their resettlement would be much cheaper than projected Kyoto Protocol expenses."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Izrael

[AYFR]

At least faith based is what I'd call it. Refusal to believe in the face of evidence, for political reasons.

Right back at ya. Hey if you want to join the Man-made GW religion then thats fine by me.

[Oceanbreeze]

Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’
The comments are classic, I definitely could hang out with those people. :paclap

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/11/07/weather-channel-founder-global-warming-greatest-scam-history

[Oceanbreeze]

Amazing someone as "stupid and dumb" as me scored 9 out of 10 on the quiz.

http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/GWQuiz/Testindex.html :zen

[Ringo]

If you understand that article, then you know that the evidence for GW caused by human activity is overwhelming.

If you understand it TB, then the Rev would absorb it by simple speed reading!!!

Now little Ms Gore Girl here is at least 1 of probably 20 sources that will show you ther OTHER side..this is from another Nation, and it appears they have done their Homework!

Remember TB, Liberals go to SCHOOL....Conservatives have an EDUCATION!!

http://canadafreepress.com/2004/deweese121404.htm

[Wabash]

Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’
The comments are classic, I definitely could hang out with those people. :paclap

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/11/07/weather-channel-founder-global-warming-greatest-scam-history

Amazing someone as "stupid and dumb" as me scored 9 out of 10 on the quiz.

http://www.globalwarmingheartland.org/GWQuiz/Testindex.html :zen

Yep, just more evidence to show that the debate is far from over. Thanks Ocean for finding more info like I posted months ago. Do you remember any of it? It was archived, or some such BS and certain parties want ME to go search for it ...again! I didn't remove it, so I'm not going thru the effort to find it!
Anyway thanks again...Great posts!:paclap:paclap:paclap

If you understand it TB, then the Rev would absorb it by simple speed reading!!!

Now little Ms Gore Girl here is at least 1 of probably 20 sources that will show you ther OTHER side..this is from another Nation, and it appears they have done their Homework!

Remember TB, Liberals go to SCHOOL....Conservatives have an EDUCATION!!

http://canadafreepress.com/2004/deweese121404.htm

I love it Ringo!!!! Boy is THAT the truth!

Hey, now don't be telling TB anything about GW contrary to her mindset....it could send her over the edge. She has her mind made up even if it is with flawed science and manipulation by the Left! Shhhhhhh....:wink

[patriotsblade]

OK, Global warming deniers, skeptics, whatever you are calling yourselves today. Allow me to submit to you the following: I will provide only a link and a few excerpts as this is a very long article.


http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2007/2007-02-02-01.asp

WASHINGTON, DC, February 2, 2007 (ENS) - This morning in Paris, hundreds of scientists from around the world released a report showing that global warming is accelerating, that human activity is responsible for this warming, and that it is likely irreversible for centuries, even if greenhouse gas emissions are stabilized.

The report, entitled "The Physical Science Basis: a Summary for Policymakers," was adopted in a line-by line review by the governments of 113 countries, including the United States,

The new report says that warming during the last 100 years was 0.74 °C (1.3 °F), with most of the warming occurring during the past 50 years. The warming for the next 20 years is projected to be 0.2°C (0.3°F) per decade.

Dr. Sharon Hays, leader of the U.S. delegation at the Paris meeting and chief science official in the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, said the IPCC report "reflects the sizeable and robust body of knowledge regarding the physical science of climate change, including the finding that the Earth is warming and that human activities have very likely caused most of the warming of the last 50 years."

U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said the United States embraces the findings of the IPCC report. "We agree with it, and the science behind it is something that our country has played a very important role in," he told journalists today in Washington.

Even some of the corporations are starting to 'get it'

The DuPont corporation, one of the 10 companies in the newly formed U.S. Climate Action Partnership, called again today on the federal government to enact climate change legislation to create a national cap on carbon dioxide emissions and a market in carbon credits.

ExxonMobil said, "Because the risks to society and ecosystems could prove to be significant, it is prudent now to develop and implement strategies that address the risks, keeping in mind the central importance of energy to the economies of the world."

[Wabash]

Man....when this cycle turns around in a few years, there's gonna be a lot of people with egg on their faces!

[Wabash]

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in [sic] allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

John Coleman...founder of the Weather Channel


I applaud you John for your courage in the Face of Liberalism!:paclap:paclap:paclap:paclap

[patriotsblade]

Ok, it's literally the consensus of thousands of scientists, hundreds of scientific organizations, numerous corporations and most of the world's governments vs. the founder of the Weather Channel.


Got it.

[Wabash]

Ok, it's literally the consensus of thousands of scientists, hundreds of scientific organizations, numerous corporations and most of the world's governments vs. the founder of the Weather Channel.


Got it.

Yep...I've Got it! But it's NOT just him....I have posted many others earlier this year that were removed when the site was down....of course, some conveninetly don't remember any of them.

I still say it's a scam...Follow the Money! 1934 was the hottest year on record.....millions of people were not here, millions of cars were not here.....what we have is a CYCLE...and some are promoting hysteria...just like you! ALWAYS follow the money!

[Trueblue]

Science isn't written in stone it's always evolving. One minute everyone is on the bandwagon the next minute they jump off. They can't even agree on the human body, how can they agree on an entire planet, especially since anyone can be bought out for anything? :sad

I'm sorry, this is just not true. Scientists do understand things better after further observation, but you are acting as if scientists just routinely reverse themselves.

Follow the money...



See above.....

I HAVE followed the money, and it goes back to the oil companies.

Right back at ya. Hey if you want to join the Man-made GW religion then thats fine by me.

More nonsense. This isn't a religion. I'm basing my opinion on facts, not faith.

Yep, just more evidence to show that the debate is far from over. Thanks Ocean for finding more info like I posted months ago. Do you remember any of it? It was archived, or some such BS and certain parties want ME to go search for it ...again! I didn't remove it, so I'm not going thru the effort to find it!
Anyway thanks again...Great posts!:paclap:paclap:paclap



I love it Ringo!!!! Boy is THAT the truth!

Hey, now don't be telling TB anything about GW contrary to her mindset....it could send her over the edge. She has her mind made up even if it is with flawed science and manipulation by the Left! Shhhhhhh....:wink

The argument continues, but the debate is over.

OK, Global warming deniers, skeptics, whatever you are calling yourselves today. Allow me to submit to you the following: I will provide only a link and a few excerpts as this is a very long article.


http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/feb2007/2007-02-02-01.asp







Even some of the corporations are starting to 'get it'

:clap

Ok, it's literally the consensus of thousands of scientists, hundreds of scientific organizations, numerous corporations and most of the world's governments vs. the founder of the Weather Channel.


Got it.

:lol

[AYFR]

What is really funny is my carbon footprint is smaller then the GWers here.

[Lone Laugher]

Rev,,,you seem like a fairly reasonable guy. Why the steadfast denial of the whole GW thing? While their is no denying that some hope to make a quick buck off of it.....you must be struck by the sheer number of impartial folks who are concerned about it.

I am no scientist...and I don't have a dog in this hunt...but I have to at least sit up and listen when so many are playing the tune.


Could it be wishful thinking on your part? It is easier to avoid a problem sometimes....easier on the psyche...could that be it?

[AYFR]

I'm sorry, this is just not true. Scientists do understand things better after further observation, but you are acting as if scientists just routinely reverse themselves.

They do as more evidence is found

I HAVE followed the money, and it goes back to the oil companies.

What about the money to the GW believers? You know the grant money (both Federal and other) that would stop if Man-Made GW was prove false?


More nonsense. This isn't a religion. I'm basing my opinion on facts, not faith.

Facts are something that can not be disputed, these claims by GWer's that is man-made is not fact but theory.

The argument continues, but the debate is over.

Only to closed-minded people

[AYFR]

Rev,,,you seem like a fairly reasonable guy. Why the steadfast denial of the whole GW thing? While their is no denying that some hope to make a quick buck off of it.....you must be struck by the sheer number of impartial folks who are concerned about it.

I am no scientist...and I don't have a dog in this hunt...but I have to at least sit up and listen when so many are playing the tune.


Could it be wishful thinking on your part? It is easier to avoid a problem sometimes....easier on the psyche...could that be it?

If you would read what I wrote I am not denying that GW exist at all. I am denying that man created it.

I am a conservationist and believe in taking care of the earth.

[Lone Laugher]

My bad. So...if it exists....what, pray tell...is the cause.......?

[AYFR]

My bad. So...if it exists....what, pray tell...is the cause.......?

The earth goes in cycles, you know warming then cooling then warming again.

[Lone Laugher]

Oh....do you REALLY think it is as simple as that? I mean....do you think all of the IMPARTIAL people ( those who have nothing to gain from the proposed fight to stave off global warming ) are so stupid or so gullible that they are believing things that are simply made up...and have no basis in fact?

[AYFR]

There are not as many impartial people as you think there are.

Those you claim to gain nothing will lose grants if man-made GW was proven false.

BTW neither can be proven at this time anyway.

It is widely alleged that the science of global warming is “settled”. This implies that all the major scientific aspects of climate change are well understood and uncontroversial, and that scientists are now just mopping up unimportant details. The allegation is profoundly untrue: for example the US alone is said to be spending more than $4 billion annually on climate research, which is a lot to pay for detailing; and great uncertainty and argument surround many of the principles of climate change, and especially the magnitude of any human causation for warming. Worse still, not only is the science not “settled”, but its discussion in the public domain is contaminated by many fallacies, which leads directly to the great public confusion that is observed.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/sppi_originals/fallacies_about_global_warming.html

Beside what about ALL those scientists and evidence on the other side that are "impartial"?

[Oceanbreeze]

If you would read what I wrote I am not denying that GW exist at all. I am denying that man created it.

I am a conservationist and believe in taking care of the earth.

Ditto.

I wonder if a public poll has been done for conservatives vs. liberal on belief that global warming is man made? It seems to be liberal agenda. Case Closed. :lmao I couldn't resist putting that sorry.

[Trueblue]

Rev,,,you seem like a fairly reasonable guy. Why the steadfast denial of the whole GW thing? While their is no denying that some hope to make a quick buck off of it.....you must be struck by the sheer number of impartial folks who are concerned about it.

I am no scientist...and I don't have a dog in this hunt...but I have to at least sit up and listen when so many are playing the tune.


Could it be wishful thinking on your part? It is easier to avoid a problem sometimes....easier on the psyche...could that be it?

It's easier to believe a in massive, world-wide conspiracy, designed to get some research dollars [:lol] that would have been just as available to study something else, as it is to believe the facts.

At least for conservatives. :D

Rev, scientists make an incredible name for themselves if they debunk someone else's theory. And the oil companies make tons more money than the research scientists. If they are just interested in money, they'd go to work for the gas, oil, and coal companies.

The earth's climate does go in cycles, but you don't seem to get that the cycles almost always take thousands of years, not one hundred. And when they don't, the effects are extremely bad for the life forms.

Even IF this was a natural occurrence, SURELY common sense tells you that we should take action.

And surely anyone who has taken high school science understands that you don't make massive changes to an environment [and if you don't believe that we have made massive changes in our lifestyle over the last hundred years, you are truly an idiot] without their being an outcome.

It is settled-and what's going on here is people who were overly influenced by a campaign by the gas and oil companies. Your doubts are faith based, not reason based. You don't have a compelling argument against, you just have a few catch phrases like "hoax" and "it's arrogant" and "cycles" and "research dollars".

[AYFR]

Just for TrueBlue :D

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

Solar Cycles

Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.

Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

By studying fluctuations in the warmth of the sun, Abdussamatov believes he can see a pattern that fits with the ups and downs in climate we see on Earth and Mars.

Abdussamatov's work, however, has not been well received by other climate scientists.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

See the debate is not over as all the evidence is not in yet

[AYFR]

It's easier to believe a in massive, world-wide conspiracy, designed to get some research dollars [:lol] that would have been just as available to study something else, as it is to believe the facts.

At least for conservatives. :D

Rev, scientists make an incredible name for themselves if they debunk someone else's theory. And the oil companies make tons more money than the research scientists. If they are just interested in money, they'd go to work for the gas, oil, and coal companies.

The earth's climate does go in cycles, but you don't seem to get that the cycles almost always take thousands of years, not one hundred. And when they don't, the effects are extremely bad for the life forms.

Even IF this was a natural occurrence, SURELY common sense tells you that we should take action.

And surely anyone who has taken high school science understands that you don't make massive changes to an environment [and if you don't believe that we have made massive changes in our lifestyle over the last hundred years, you are truly an idiot] without their being an outcome.

It is settled-and what's going on here is people who were overly influenced by a campaign by the gas and oil companies. Your doubts are faith based, not reason based. You don't have a compelling argument against, you just have a few catch phrases like "hoax" and "it's arrogant" and "cycles" and "research dollars".
First it is not settled. All the evidence is not in yet.
Second since this is a natural occurance why would we want to stop it. IT is a natural cycle and we can not stop it.
My doubts are based on evidence from scientist that disagree with you. They are not "faith" based. You have just closed your mind to the other side of the arguement and aare not repeating talkiing points.

Question since you believe that GW is man-made then how do you explain the GW on mars and other planets? Is that man-made as well?

NO it isn't and neither is ours.

[Oceanbreeze]

First it is not settled. All the evidence is not in yet.
Second since this is a natural occurance why would we want to stop it. IT is a natural cycle and we can not stop it.
My doubts are based on evidence from scientist that disagree with you. They are not "faith" based. You have just closed your mind to the other side of the arguement and aare not repeating talkiing points.

Question since you believe that GW is man-made then how do you explain the GW on mars and other planets? Is that man-made as well?

NO it isn't and neither is ours.

Now Rev, you know us conservatives pooled our money together, bought our own space shuttle, and flew to Mars to "junk it up". :devil

[AYFR]

:rev
Now Rev, you know us conservatives pooled our money together, bought our own space shuttle, and flew to Mars to "junk it up". :devil
:para

[Wabash]

Oh....do you REALLY think it is as simple as that? I mean....do you think all of the IMPARTIAL people ( those who have nothing to gain from the proposed fight to stave off global warming ) are so stupid or so gullible that they are believing things that are simply made up...and have no basis in fact?

Yep they are too afraid to speak up for fear of losing their grant money! They have families, they need their jobs, so they aren't gonna buck the trend, no matter how much Bullshit GW really is! Too bad too, because science is being compromised by liberals with an agenda. Science that will cost all of us in the future via our lifestyles and our wallet! The implications are enormous!

And remember one more thing LL............

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x77/watermelon039/BigBrother.jpg

[Lone Laugher]

Is that supposed to be you watching me, Wannabe? When did you grow back the hair?

[Wabash]

Is that supposed to be you watching me, Wannabe? When did you grow back the hair?

Hey....I still have some left!

[Trueblue]

Just for TrueBlue :D


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

See the debate is not over as all the evidence is not in yet

The debate is over. The argument continues.

All the evidence won't be in during our lifetimes. We know enough to know that we must take action, or pay the price later.

First it is not settled. All the evidence is not in yet.

It will never "all" be in, but the debate is settled.

Second since this is a natural occurance why would we want to stop it.

Because it's harming humans and other life forms.

IT is a natural cycle and we can not stop it.

It's not, and even if it was, there is no reason that we can't act to change it.

I'm sure you realize that our entire economy is based on altering the natural world.

My doubts are based on evidence from scientist that disagree with you. They are not "faith" based. You have just closed your mind to the other side of the arguement and aare not repeating talkiing points.

No, that is incorrect from start to finish.

You seek out anyone who has any doubts and accept what they say because you have listened to too many contrarians.

My mind is educated, not closed.

Question since you believe that GW is man-made then how do you explain the GW on mars and other planets? Is that man-made as well?

This is another one that has been debunked. I'll post an explanation again, and you folks can read it and then forget it. Then in a couple of weeks or months you can tell me again that you don't believe in man-made global warming because Mars is getting warmer.

From the link, below:

The shrinkage of the Martian South Polar Cap is almost certainly a regional climate change, and is not any indication of global warming trends in the Martian atmosphere.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192

NO it isn't and neither is ours.

You are drawing an unsupported conclusion. See the above.

Now Rev, you know us conservatives pooled our money together, bought our own space shuttle, and flew to Mars to "junk it up". :devil

I love the Mars mission. :shrug

Yep they are too afraid to speak up for fear of losing their grant money! They have families, they need their jobs, so they aren't gonna buck the trend, no matter how much Bullshit GW really is! Too bad too, because science is being compromised by liberals with an agenda. Science that will cost all of us in the future via our lifestyles and our wallet! The implications are enormous!

You have the entire world-wide conspiracy mapped out in your mind, don't you? :shrug

[Oceanbreeze]

GW liberals; The debate is CLOSED.
GW conservatives; It's a hoax!!!

I bet none of you can find one conserative (don't even try the religious blame game angle) that believes in GW. None of my family, shock my very liberal sister and mom don't believe in it, neither do our family and friends. :mike

[sparks]

TB I love the Mars mission.

Me too! We've certainly gotten our money out of that mission considering they only expected those rovers to go for 90 days and they're still going strong 2 years later. :aliens

[Trueblue]

GW liberals; The debate is CLOSED.
GW conservatives; It's a hoax!!!

I bet none of you can find one conserative (don't even try the religious blame game angle) that believes in GW. None of my family, shock my very liberal sister and mom don't believe in it, neither do our family and friends. :mike

I'm sure that there are conservatives who believe in man-made global warming.

It's not "liberal agenda", it's just that liberals want to deal with the reality of the situation.

TB

Me too! We've certainly gotten our money out of that mission considering they only expected those rovers to go for 90 days and they're still going strong 2 years later. :aliens

The first pictures back were incredible, I felt like I was there.

[Oceanbreeze]

I'm sure that there are conservatives who believe in man-made global warming.

It's not "liberal agenda", it's just that liberals want to deal with the reality of the situation.



The first pictures back were incredible, I felt like I was there.

Find me a conservative who believes in man made globaloney.

[Wabash]

The debate is over. The argument continues.

All the evidence won't be in during our lifetimes. We know enough to know that we must take action, or pay the price later.



It will never "all" be in, but the debate is settled.



Because it's harming humans and other life forms.


It's not, and even if it was, there is no reason that we can't act to change it.

I'm sure you realize that our entire economy is based on altering the natural world.



No, that is incorrect from start to finish.

You seek out anyone who has any doubts and accept what they say because you have listened to too many contrarians.

My mind is educated, not closed.



This is another one that has been debunked. I'll post an explanation again, and you folks can read it and then forget it. Then in a couple of weeks or months you can tell me again that you don't believe in man-made global warming because Mars is getting warmer.

From the link, below:



http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=192



You are drawing an unsupported conclusion. See the above.



I love the Mars mission. :shrug



You have the entire world-wide conspiracy mapped out in your mind, don't you? :shrug

Nope, not even close...but I do know that You TB have swallowed it whole!
You have your mind made up because the other liberals say it is so. You never once thought of spitting!
GW is a huge SCA