State of Emergency Declared in Pakistan

[The Q]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_re_as/pakistan&printer=1;_ylt=ApqHyeH_he_5C8bxmAslcyj9xg8F

Pakistan's Musharraf declares emergency
By MATTHEW PENNINGTON, Associated Press Writer

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency in Pakistan on Saturday ahead of a crucial Supreme Court decision on whether to overturn his recent election win and amid rising militant violence.

"The chief of army staff has proclaimed a state of emergency and issued a provisional constitutional order," a newscaster on Pakistan TV said.

Dozens of police blocked the road in front of the Supreme Court building in Islamabad where judges were believed to be inside.

Musharraf, who took power in a 1999 coup, is also chief of the army. PTV said he would address the nation later Saturday.

The state TV report gave no reason for the emergency but it follows weeks of speculation that he could take the step, amid rising political turmoil and Islamic violence.

The U.S. and other Western allies urged him this week not to jeopardize the country's transition to democracy. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said Thursday the U.S. would not support any move by Musharaff to declare martial law.

During previous emergencies in Pakistan, a provisional constitutional order has led to the suspension of some basic rights of citizens and for judges to take a fresh oath of office.

"This is the most condemnable act," said Ahsan Iqbal, a spokesman for the opposition PML-N party of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif who Musharraf barred from returning to exile to Pakistan in September to mount a campaign against military rule.

"The whole nation will resist this extra-constitutional measure," he said.

The government blocked transmissions of private news channels in the capital and other cities.

Shahzad Iqbal, an official at a cable TV news provider in Islamabad said authorities were blocking its transmissions of private news channels in the capital and neigboring Rawalpindi. State TV was still on the air.

"The government has done it," he said.

Residents of Karachi said their cable TV was also off the air.

[Semantics]

I was just reading that.


Scary times. :kickcan

[Semantics]

Another thing, Joe Biden made an excellent point in the last debate regarding the comparison between the dangers of Iran versus the dangers of an out of control Pakistan.

We need to pay attention.

[Trueblue]

Yikes.

The instability of Pakistan is very worrisome. The Indian-Pakistani conflict was considered by Bill Clinton to be one of the greatest threats to world peace.

BTW, those who are demanding that we bomb Iran, both India and Pakistan have nukes.

[Trueblue]

Another thing, Joe Biden made an excellent point in the last debate regarding the comparison between the dangers of Iran versus the dangers of an out of control Pakistan.

We need to pay attention.

Oh, great minds...I was just making a similar post.

[The Q]

There was a Newsweek cover story about Pakistan a couple weeks ago--the title was "The Most Dangerous Country on Earth."

There is so much instability there, and so much influence by Taliban and other hard-core Islamic groups.

I don't understand the logic of the Bush administration. I just don't. Terrorism is being bred in Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Sudan.

What the FUCK are we doing in Iraq?

ADQ

[Trueblue]

There was a Newsweek cover story about Pakistan a couple weeks ago--the title was "The Most Dangerous Country on Earth."

There is so much instability there, and so much influence by Taliban and other hard-core Islamic groups.

I don't understand the logic of the Bush administration. I just don't. Terrorism is being bred in Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Sudan.

What the FUCK are we doing in Iraq?

ADQ

I think of it as being like stepping in dog shit. You just can't believe what a mess it is and how long it takes to really clean it up.

What is the driving force behind the terrorism, Q, in your opinion?

[The Q]

As the world gets smaller, it becomes more and more obvious to the people who have nothing that there are other people in the world who have more than enough. It's totally unfair.

The west has some bad karma that's just about to bite them in the ass. These other countries have been there for thousands of years--with layers upon layers of conflicts stacked on top of each other Western society has gone in and colonized these places--raping and pillaging and then leaving them to sort it all out in in a dog-eat-dog fashion after they withdrew.

Not to mention the way that America was born--from destroying a whole culture of native peoples and building itself on the backs of slaves--and when we outlawed slavery here--we went overseas and found "slaves" to work for us there.

We're at a breaking point...our greed has been out of control for so long, and resources are going to become increasingly limited. Other countries who ally themselves with us only do so because it is in their best interest---but watch the dollar continue to fall, and watch our friends run away.

The terrorism that comes from Islamic populations arises from these societal conditions combined with a strong religious foundation.

I tell you this today: If the U.S. stock market crashed, and we had years of sustained poverty--the right wing of America would operate with the same philosophy as these terrorist organizations, and carrying out the same kinds of actions against the 'evil' that their wealthy and smug leaders pointed to as being the cause of their misfortune.

ADQ

[Trueblue]

I agree.

In fact, you can see people here threatening to do the same to illegal immigrants, and illegal immigrants are not causing a fraction of the problems caused by US policy.

[The Q]

Religion is a red herring. It's a total non-issue. It is only a tool that people use to rally the troops.

This is where communism went wrong. It assumed that religion was the root of the conflicts between people.

This is where most Americans are wrong--they think this is about Islam v. Christianity.

Even if there were NO religion in the world--poor people would still be pissed the fuck off that there are rich people that are using them and taking advantage of them.

But for the rich people, they feel better knowing that it is their RELIGION that is being attacked---and they don't have to change a damn thing about they way they live.

And for poor people, with no money, little resources, and no way to even the scales---religion helps justify their violent reaction to the injustices of the world...knowing that when (not if) they die combating the injustice--they will be rewarded with all the things they have had to go without in this life.

ADQ

[Trueblue]

And persons raised in most modern religious traditions can justify violence against oppression. That, IMO, is why you see people who are educated and middle class being drawn into terrorist activities.

[patriotsblade]

Religion is a red herring. It's a total non-issue. It is only a tool that people use to rally the troops.

This is where communism went wrong. It assumed that religion was the root of the conflicts between people.

This is where most Americans are wrong--they think this is about Islam v. Christianity.

Even if there were NO religion in the world--poor people would still be pissed the fuck off that there are rich people that are using them and taking advantage of them.

But for the rich people, they feel better knowing that it is their RELIGION that is being attacked---and they don't have to change a damn thing about they way they live.

And for poor people, with no money, little resources, and no way to even the scales---religion helps justify their violent reaction to the injustices of the world...knowing that when (not if) they die combating the injustice--they will be rewarded with all the things they have had to go without in this life.

ADQ

:clap :clap DEAD ON

[Wabash]

Another thing, Joe Biden made an excellent point in the last debate regarding the comparison between the dangers of Iran versus the dangers of an out of control Pakistan.

We need to pay attention.
One of the few times he has ever made a good point!

There was a Newsweek cover story about Pakistan a couple weeks ago--the title was "The Most Dangerous Country on Earth."

There is so much instability there, and so much influence by Taliban and other hard-core Islamic groups.

I don't understand the logic of the Bush administration. I just don't. Terrorism is being bred in Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Sudan.

What the FUCK are we doing in Iraq?

ADQ

Iraq, Iran and Afganistan have openly threatened world peace, Pakistan and India have not. Their govts. have been friendly to the US and the rest of the world. Most of the conflict in Pakistan is within their own borders or with India, not the rest of the world. However, if Mushariff is overthrown, that could change drastically.

[Trueblue]

One of the few times he has ever made a good point!



Iraq, Iran and Afganistan have openly threatened world peace, Pakistan and India have not. Their govts. have been friendly to the US and the rest of the world. Most of the conflict in Pakistan is within their own borders or with India, not the rest of the world. However, if Mushariff is overthrown, that could change drastically.

:rofl

[Wabash]

:rofl

Show me the rhetoric of the former vs. the latter? Show me where The leaders in India and Pakistan have threatened the US or Israel on a daily basis, for decades?

[Wabash]

Q, you have some good points and Greed certainly plays a part in there.

However, the USA is still the Greatest Country in the world and I'll defend it to my death against all comers!

[Trueblue]

Show me the rhetoric of the former vs. the latter? Show me where The leaders in India and Pakistan have threatened the US or Israel on a daily basis, for decades?

Why do you place so much emphasis on the bullshit words of demagogues?

Rhetoric doesn't kill people.

We have negotiated with Mao and Stalin, have you ever heard the kinds of things that THEY said?

[Wabash]

Why do you place so much emphasis on the bullshit words of demagogues?

Rhetoric doesn't kill people.

We have negotiated with Mao and Stalin, have you ever heard the kinds of things that THEY said?

Sure....but that was 50-60 years ago....this is the modern world, with nukes and technology up the kazoo! You can't compare them to now. Well, you can, but it's apples and oranges.

India and Pakistan have been our allies, Iran and Iraq haven't!

Rhetoric DOES KILL people here and there....

[Trueblue]

Sure....but that was 50-60 years ago....this is the modern world, with nukes and technology up the kazoo! You can't compare them to now. Well, you can, but it's apples and oranges.

Oh, so sorry, these threats were absolutely made in the time of nuclear weapons. Therefore, it is a perfect comparison.

The right is being distracted by the rhetoric in the case of Iran, and ignoring real threats.

At the same time, we are negotiating with NK, and they don't talk all that nice, either-and they HAVE a nuke.

BTW, India was not happy that we became allies with Pakistan.

[Wabash]

Rhetoric from the peace talks and subsequent actions between Israel and Egypt, that Carter brokered...got King Huessin killed....most likely by his own people!

[Wabash]

Oh, so sorry, these threats were absolutely made in the time of nuclear weapons. Therefore, it is a perfect comparison.

The right is being distracted by the rhetoric in the case of Iran, and ignoring real threats.

At the same time, we are negotiating with NK, and they don't talk all that nice, either-and they HAVE a nuke.

BTW, India was not happy that we became allies with Pakistan.

TB...at the time of Mao and Stalin....the US had the ONLY nuke capability!
Distracted? Hardly!
Yep...NK...and if Bush had bombed those assholes, you'd be all over him...he is attempting a peaceful solution, with China's help and you are still shitting on him....you ain't happy unless it's a dimwit Liberal in there...well Billy boy didn't do shit while he was in there, except enable NK and China!!

True, India was NOT happy, but they are STILL are ally!
Gonna try and stir up more stupid crap or are you done yet?

BTW...I place emnphasis on historical perspective and the REAL world, not your make believe world!

[Trueblue]

TB...at the time of Mao and Stalin....the US had the ONLY nuke capability!
Distracted? Hardly!

No, check out the facts.

The Soviet Union developed and tested their first nuclear weapon in 1949, based partially on information obtained from Soviet espionage in the United States. Both the U.S. and USSR would go on to develop weapons powered by nuclear fusion (hydrogen bombs) by the mid-1950s.

Joseph Stalin (alternatively transliterated Josef Stalin), was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union's Central Committee from 1922 until his death in 1953.

Stalin did have a nuclear weapon, and I'm sure you're aware of the threats to the US made by Nikita Khrushchev.

Yep...NK...and if Bush had bombed those assholes, you'd be all over him...he is attempting a peaceful solution, with China's help and you are still shitting on him....you ain't happy unless it's a dimwit Liberal in there...well Billy boy didn't do shit while he was in there, except enable NK and China!!


You miss my point. Maybe someone else will have mercy and explain it to you.

True, India was NOT happy, but they are STILL are ally!
Gonna try and stir up more stupid crap or are you done yet?


I have no clue what you mean here.

BTW...I place emnphasis on historical perspective and the REAL world, not your make believe world!

Actually, you've got that backwards.

[Wabash]

Ok...take Mao off the table than...

[Wabash]

Still TB...50 years ago, has little to do with now...

[Trueblue]

Ok...take Mao off the table than...

:lol I don't think you read what I posted.

[Wabash]

:lol I don't think you read what I posted.

I'll go read it again...I'm blessed, but not perfect..:mw

[Wabash]

Ok...I reread it..yes, I've heard what they said, but don't remember any longer...dead and forgotten...new players to worry about now.

[toxic]

As the world gets smaller, it becomes more and more obvious to the people who have nothing that there are other people in the world who have more than enough. It's totally unfair. ...


ADQ

One problem is that we will never catch up with poverty as long as the world population is doubling every 30 years. Exponential grow is a runaway condition. This could be planned handled, but no one wants to be realistic and stop having children.

Graphically is seems shocking to me:

http://www.greatchange.org/images/ov-price,energy3.gif

Most population projections show a sudden realization occuring soon. I think we will exhaust the available resources and there will be big adjustments, either naturally, by wars or by governments. I can imagine very bad things happening.

http://www.siue.edu/~rblain/f2proj.gif

[toxic]

... The terrorism that comes from Islamic populations arises from these societal conditions combined with a strong religious foundation.

I tell you this today: If the U.S. stock market crashed, and we had years of sustained poverty--the right wing of America would operate with the same philosophy as these terrorist organizations, and carrying out the same kinds of actions against the 'evil' that their wealthy and smug leaders pointed to as being the cause of their misfortune.

ADQ

If there is a major crash while Bush is President, do you have any doubt that he will also suspend the Constitution?

He is probably taking notes on the events in Pakistan.

[Trueblue]

Ok...I reread it..yes, I've heard what they said, but don't remember any longer...dead and forgotten...new players to worry about now.

Not the point, though, Wabash. I just watched a program on the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the way it was handled by Kennedy was brilliant. And he didn't use it as an excuse to go to war, he considered war a viable option but a last resort.

This constant saber rattling by the Bushies is bad for the entire world, and Bush should be kicked out of office for it. And Cheney is right up there with his hand up Bush's backside, making his puppet talk.

[issac the dragon]

If there is a major crash while Bush is President, do you have any doubt that he will also suspend the Constitution?

He is probably taking notes on the events in Pakistan.

Toxic, I had the same reaction to reading about Pakistan. A perfect script for Bush to follow.

[Saguaro]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Police and soldiers emboldened by state of emergency powers swept up hundreds of activists and opposition members on Sunday, dragged away protesters shouting "Shame on you!", and turned government buildings into barbed-wire compounds.

Gen. Pervez Musharraf's government said parliamentary elections could be delayed up to a year as it tries to stamp out a growing Islamic militant threat — effectively linking two of the greatest concerns of Pakistan's biggest international donors: the United States and Britain.

Increasingly concerned about the unfolding crisis, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Washington was reviewing billions of dollars in aid to its close terrorism-fighting ally. Britain is also examining its assistance.

"Some of the aid that goes to Pakistan is directly related to the counterterrorism mission," Rice told reporters traveling with her. "We just have to review the situation."

But, she said, she did not expect the U.S. "to ignore or set aside our concerns about terrorism."

Scores of paramilitary troops blocked access to the Supreme Court and parliament. Streets in the capital appeared largely calm, with only a handful of demonstrations. But one, attended by 40 people at the Marriott Hotel, was broken up by baton-wielding police.

"Shame on you! Go Musharraf go!" the protesters shouted as officers dragged some out of the crowd and forced them to the ground. Eight were taken away in a van.

Others were apathetic. Standing at on a dusty street corner in Islamabad, Togul Khan, 38, said he didn't care about the emergency declaration.

"For us, life stays the same, even when politicians throw Pakistan into the sky, spin it around and watch as it crashes back down to earth," the day laborer said as he waited for work.

In an address to the nation late Saturday, Musharraf said the growth of a militant Islamic movement and a court system that hindered his powers forced him to declare a state of emergency, despite the urging of Western allies against authoritarian measures.

Less than 24 hours after the order was issued, militants in the Afghan border freed 211 captured Pakistani soldiers in exchange for the army's decision to free 28 insurgents, including some allegedly connected to suicide attacks, officials said.

Though they gave no explanation for the decision, it appeared to fly in the face of Musharraf's claims that emergency rule was needed to make sure terrorists — dozens of whom he says have been freed by Pakistani courts — stay off the streets.

Critics say Musharraf, a 1999 coup leader who had promised to give up his army post and become a civilian president this year, imposed emergency rule in a last-ditch attempt to cling to power.

His leadership is threatened by the Islamic militant movement that has spread from border regions to the capital, the reemergence of political rival and former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, and an increasingly defiant Supreme Court, which was expected to rule soon on the validity of his recent presidential election win. Hearings scheduled for next week were postponed indefinitely.

Attorney General Malik Mohammed Qayyum denied claims by Bhutto and others that Musharraf had imposed martial law — direct rule by the army — under the guise of a state of emergency. He noted the prime minister was still in place and that the legislature would complete its term next week.

Crucial parliamentary elections had been scheduled for January, but Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz said the polls could be delayed up to a year. He said the extraordinary measures would be in place "as long as it is necessary."

In Islamabad, phone service that was cut Saturday evening appeared to have been restored by Sunday morning, but television news networks other than state-controlled Pakistan TV remained off the air.

Aziz said up to 500 people were detained nationwide in 24 hours.

Among them were Javed Hashmi, the acting president of the party of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif; cricket star-turned politician, Imran Khan; Asma Jehangir, chairman of the independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan; and Hamid Gul, former chief of the main intelligence agency and a critic of Musharraf.

Around 200 police with assault rifles and sticks stormed the rights commission's office in the eastern city of Lahore, breaking up a meeting and arresting about 50 members, said Mehbood Ahmed Khan, legal officer for the activists.

"They dragged us out, including the women," he said from the police station. "It's inhuman, undemocratic and a violation of human rights to enter a room and arrest people gathering peacefully there."

Bhutto, who narrowly escaped assassination in an Oct. 18 suicide bombing that killed 145 others, scoffed at claims that Musharraf imposed the emergency measures to fight Islamic militants — even though Muslim insurgents were widely blamed for the attempt on her life.

"Many people in Pakistan believe that it has nothing to do with stopping terrorism, and it has everything to do with stopping a court verdict that was coming against him," she told the weekend edition of ABC News' "Good Morning America."

Musharraf replaced the chief justice, Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry, who had emerged as the main check on the his power. Aitzaz Ahsan, a lawyer who represented the judge, also was arrested.

The U.S. has provided about $11 billion to Pakistan since 2001, when Musharraf made a strategic shift to ally with the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks. Rice told reporters that Washington would review its aid in light of the new emergency measures, though the Pentagon earlier said the emergency rule would not affect its military support to the Muslim nation.

Britain also said it was examining if Musharraf's steps would affect the hundreds of millions of dollars in aid it has pledged to the south Asian nation.

Musharraf's emergency order suspended the 1973 constitution. Seven of the 17 Supreme Court judges immediately rejected the order, and only five agreed to take the oath of office under the new provisional constitution.

Musharraf issued two ordinances toughening media laws, including a ban on live broadcasts of "incidents of violence and conflict." Also, TV operators who "ridicule" the president, armed forces, and other powerful state bodies face up to three years in jail.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071104/ap_on_re_as/pakistan;_ylt=At.r7on4IHaeT1tpo_f77jCs0NUE

[Saguaro]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan police began a round up of 1,500 lawyers, judges and political activists on a list of people to be arrested a day after Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency, suspended the country's constitution and dismissed the chief justice, police sources and witnesses said.

The government also issued new rules forbidding newspapers and broadcasters from expressing "any opinion that is prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan or integrity of Pakistan."

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who on Saturday called the emergency declaration "highly regrettable," on Sunday called for "all parties to act with restraint in what is obviously a very difficult situation."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/04/sunday/index.html

[issac the dragon]

I feel very sorry for the Pakistani people. "For us, life stays the same." A sad reflection on the lives of most of the people in the world.

[Trueblue]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan police began a round up of 1,500 lawyers, judges and political activists on a list of people to be arrested a day after Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency, suspended the country's constitution and dismissed the chief justice, police sources and witnesses said.

The government also issued new rules forbidding newspapers and broadcasters from expressing "any opinion that is prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan or integrity of Pakistan."

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who on Saturday called the emergency declaration "highly regrettable," on Sunday called for "all parties to act with restraint in what is obviously a very difficult situation."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/04/sunday/index.html

What kind of crisis requires that you round up the judges, lawyers, and political activists?

[Saguaro]

That is exactly what I was wondering