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Wabash
10-24-2007, 05:05 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/24/national/main3401265.shtml
Officials: Arson Behind Santiago Fire
CBS News: State And Federal Agencies To Offer $50,000 Reward To Help Find Arsonist

CBS/AP) CBS News has learned a task force of agencies, including the FBI, ATF, the Orange County Fire Authority and the California Department of Forestry will announce shortly that the massive Santiago Canyon Fire - which has caused an estimated $10 million in damage - is being officially declared an arson, and a $50,000 reward is being offered to find the arsonist.

Investigators have identified two separate "points of origin" where they believe the fire was set, CBS News has learned. FBI agents secured the scene to "maintain its integrity."

The Santiago Fire has burned about 19,200 acres east of Irvine, officials said, and it is around 30 percent contained. Six homes and eight outbuildings have been destroyed, with another eight homes and 12 outbuildings damaged. Four firefighters have been injured fighting the blaze and about 3,000 people evacuated.

The devastating wildfires in Southern California have caused at least $1 billion in damage in San Diego County alone, officials said Wednesday, as easing wind gave firefighters hope that they begin to gain ground against the flames.

Other blazes were believed to have been started by downed power lines and a car fire.

The fires, now in their fourth day, have destroyed 1,500 homes and caused nearly 1 million people to flee - the largest evacuation in state history. At least 1,200 of the damaged homes were in San Diego County, and officials believe that number will rise.

"Clearly, this is going to be a $1 billion or more disaster," Ron Lane, San Diego County's director of emergency services, told reporters during a news conference.

The announcement of San Diego's staggering losses came as President Bush signed a major disaster declaration for California in the wake of the wildfires that have burned about 426,000 acres, or about 665 square miles.

The declaration puts in motion long-term federal recovery programs to help state and local governments, families, individuals and certain nonprofit organizations recover.

"Americans all across this land care deeply about them," the president said after a Cabinet meeting convened to coordinate federal relief efforts. "We're concerned about their safety. We're concerned about their property."

With nearly 1 million people ordered out, it marks one of the largest evacuations in U.S. history, reports CBS' The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith.

The Bush administration's disaster assistance chief promised no repeat of the Hurricane Katrina experience Wednesday, saying "this is a new FEMA" as Washington weighed options to help California wildfire victims.

"We're going to make sure this operation runs as smoothly as possible given the size of this disaster," said head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency David Paulison, when asked if people who lost homes can expect a more aggressive response than when Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast in late summer 2005.

The fierce Santa Ana wind that has stoked the explosive blazes had started to moderate slightly across the region Wednesday although stiff gusts continued to blow through some canyon areas. Forecasters said the wind eventually would be followed by cooling sea breezes.

Wind was reported blowing at a sustained speed of 21 to 36 mph in some areas Wednesday, considerably less than the gusts of up to 100 mph earlier in the week.

The shift could allow for a greater aerial assault and help firefighters beat back the most destructive blazes, said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

Crews were anticipating an injection of additional firefighters and equipment from other states, mostly throughout the West. Frustration over the firefighting effort began to emerge Tuesday when a fire official said not enough had been done to protect homes.

Orange County Fire Chief Chip Prather told reporters that firefighters' lives were threatened because too few crews were on the ground. He said a quick deployment of aircraft could have corralled a massive blaze near Irvine.

"It is an absolute fact: Had we had more air resources, we would have been able to control this fire," he said.

Twenty-one firefighters and at least 24 others have been injured. One person was killed by the flames, and the San Diego medical examiner's officer listed four other deaths as connected to the blazes.

The state's top firefighter said Prather misstated the availability of firefighters and equipment. Eight of the state's nine water-dumping helicopters were in Southern California by Sunday, when the first fires began, along with 13 air tankers, said Ruben Grijalva, director of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.

Grijalva said the fires, spread by wind that at times topped 100 mph, would have overwhelmed most efforts to fight them.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger dismissed the criticism when questioned by an ABC News reporter, and praised the rapid deployment of fire crews and equipment across a region from north of Los Angeles to the Mexican border.

Continued.................

Wabash
10-24-2007, 05:06 PM
(CBS/AP) "Anyone that is complaining about the planes just wants to complain because there's a bunch of nonsense," he said. "The fact is that we could have all the planes in the world here - we have 90 aircraft here and six that we got especially from the federal government - and they can't fly because of the wind situation."

Thousands of people packed emergency shelters, where many had an agonizing wait to find out whether their homes had survived.

"I'm ready to go, but at the same time, I don't want to go up there and be surprised," said Mary Busch, 41, who did not know whether her home in Ramona, in San Diego County, was still standing. She has lived at the evacuation center at Qualcomm Stadium since Monday, sleeping in her SUV with her 11- and 8-year-old sons.

Others were eager to return to houses they were confident had survived.

"I called my home and my answering machine still works, so that's how I know we're OK," said Rancho Bernardo resident Fuli Du, who packed his belongings Wednesday preparing to leave Qualcomm.

He spent his 41st birthday Tuesday at the stadium, where he has been living with his wife and two young sons.

Thousands of people packed evacuation centers, where many had an agonizing wait to find out whether their homes had survived. At the Del Mar Fairgrounds in northern San Diego County, which was converted into a shelter, many stared at television sets blaring reports from the fire lines and damaged neighborhoods.

Paulison was optimistic about the conditions at Qualcomm. "I was just there yesterday, last night actually," he told The Early Show anchor Hannah Storm. "Things are under control. There's plenty of food, plenty of water. There's lots of security."

During Katrina, New Orleans' attempt to shelter people in a sports stadium went terribly wrong. The Superdome turned into a small city of violence, filth and chaos. But even with an estimated 10,000 people sleeping in Qualcomm, the stadium is getting high marks, reports CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric.

More evacuation orders were issued Wednesday. Residents of the San Diego County communities of Fallbrook and Julian, an area devastated by a 2003 wildfire, were ordered out of their homes. Officials also were evacuating De Luz, an unincorporated community north of Camp Pendleton that was being threatened by a wildfire on the Marine base. The fire also closed Interstate 5 and the Metrolink commuter rail, snagging the morning commute.

However, residents were allowed to return to some areas of San Diego County including Carlsbad, Chula Vista, Del Mar, Encinitas and Solana Beach.

"There are some hot spots and issues there, but we wouldn't be letting people go back if it weren't safe," county spokeswoman Lesley Kirk said.

The city of San Diego was assessing whether to allow people to return to their homes in Rancho Bernardo, one of the hardest-hit areas, Mayor Sanders said.

So far, the fires have inflicted the worst damage in San Diego County, where five blazes continued to burn. The largest fire had charred 196,420 acres - about 300 square miles - from Witch Creek to Rancho Santa Fe, destroying 650 homes, businesses and other buildings. Other hard-hit areas included San Bernardino County, where hundreds of homes burned in the mountain resort communities.

The entire Lake Arrowhead area has been evacuated, reports CBS News correspondent Bill Whitaker. Officially, 300 houses that have been destroyed, but people fear that once they get back into these woods and take a full count, that that number will go much higher.

Kurtz
10-24-2007, 05:07 PM
This arsonist better have died in his own flames coz
he's gonna burn when the FEDS get hold of him/her. :mad

Saguaro
10-24-2007, 05:09 PM
I hope they find the person and put them away forever

Wabash
10-24-2007, 08:16 PM
Meanwhile,....firefighters caught a guy attempting to start a fire, beat the guy into submission and put out the fire...
San Bernadino Co. Sheriff's deputies, shot and killed another man that had started a fire and continued to do more and would not heed their warnings...
Good job guys!

3 arsonists so far....

issac the dragon
10-24-2007, 08:51 PM
There are evil ones, crazy ones, and firefighters. All start fires. The ones I hate the most are the firefighters who start fires in the forests because they make big bucks fighting them.

Wabash
10-24-2007, 09:29 PM
There are evil ones, crazy ones, and firefighters. All start fires. The ones I hate the most are the firefighters who start fires in the forests because they make big bucks fighting them.

We agree there isaac!!! We have had our share in Oregon...some get shot and shoveled where they stand......that's poetic to me.

Oceanbreeze
10-24-2007, 09:43 PM
Meanwhile,....firefighters caught a guy attempting to start a fire, beat the guy into submission and put out the fire...
San Bernadino Co. Sheriff's deputies, shot and killed another man that had started a fire and continued to do more and would not heed their warnings...
Good job guys!

3 arsonists so far....

That's sad someone deliberately started the fires. :sad

Wabash; did I miss your apology it was an act of God? :lmao

Wabash
10-25-2007, 12:34 PM
That's sad someone deliberately started the fires. :sad

Wabash; did I miss your apology it was an act of God? :lmao

Come again?

toxic
10-25-2007, 01:56 PM
Meanwhile,....firefighters caught a guy attempting to start a fire, beat the guy into submission and put out the fire...
San Bernadino Co. Sheriff's deputies, shot and killed another man that had started a fire and continued to do more and would not heed their warnings...
Good job guys!

3 arsonists so far....

I'm sorry, but this sounds like bullshit to me.

I bet the guys were trying to start backfires to save their property, IF IT EVEN HAPPENED.

Why would an arsonist risk being caught doing what the Santa Ana winds and Global Warming was already accomplishing just fine.

In these California coastal mountain fires, people have historically complained that the firefighters stand by and watch the houses burn to the ground, when they could be easily saved. I have had personal friends who claim to have witnessed this.

I have also personally watched firefighters standby in a neighborhood fire and do the same thing. As the minutes go by and they are all standing there doing nothing, it is hard to figure what damage a little water on the fire could do. In the case I witnessed, I finally left the scene before any water had been put on the fire.

Firefighters are extremely over-rated.

http://www.lgrfa.org/images/DSC04040.jpg

Wabash
10-25-2007, 02:59 PM
I'm sorry, but this sounds like bullshit to me.

I bet the guys were trying to start backfires to save their property, IF IT EVEN HAPPENED.

Why would an arsonist risk being caught doing what the Santa Ana winds and Global Warming was already accomplishing just fine.

In these California coastal mountain fires, people have historically complained that the firefighters stand by and watch the houses burn to the ground, when they could be easily saved. I have had personal friends who claim to have witnessed this.

I have also personally watched firefighters standby in a neighborhood fire and do the same thing. As the minutes go by and they are all standing there doing nothing, it is hard to figure what damage a little water on the fire could do. In the case I witnessed, I finally left the scene before any water had been put on the fire.

Firefighters are extremely over-rated.

http://www.lgrfa.org/images/DSC04040.jpg

YEP...You are a CASE in Point of a Liberal complainer!!
You have now reached the new designation of DUMBSHIT! Congradulations on your promotion!!

First of all, if a place is not worth saving, than the firefighters would not take action!
Disparaging firefighters now on some hearsay and something you witnessed but were probably too Dumb to figure out!

Boy, what a moron!

Secondly, many homeowners do not fire proof their house or move into a very wooded or brushy area with total ignorance!

Thirdly moron......I heard the report on a live CBS broadcast! You got a bitch...email CBS and tell em you don't believe em!

What a Friggin Goof Ball! Toxic fits perfect! What are you smoking FOOL?

Wabash
10-25-2007, 03:01 PM
Why do I waste my time conversing with morons? Toxic IS what's wrong with America!!!

Wabash
10-25-2007, 03:06 PM
The arsonist were probably Enviro Whackos!

BTW...regarding the obvious photo above...the place is fully engulfed and no need to try and do anything but let it burn out...why waste resouces and endanger the lives of firefighters!

Wabash
10-25-2007, 04:30 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/breakingnews/2007/10/amid-worries-of.html

One arson suspect arrested, another shot and killed by police

Amid worries of new blazes adding to the firestorm already afflicting the region, a man who set a brush fire in Hesperia was arrested today on suspicion of arson, and police reported shooting and killing another arson suspect after chasing him out of scrub behind Cal State San Bernardino.

Law enforcement officials said Wednesday that they did not know whether either of the men started any of the more than a dozen large fires that have devastated Southern California in recent days, including the nearby Lake Arrowhead blaze. The Hesperia blaze in the arson case was quickly extinguished by spectators.

At least one of the huge wildfires, the Rosa fire in Temecula, was described as the work of an arsonist, investigators have said.

The confrontation that ended in the shooting death started around 6 p.m. Tuesday when San Bernardino university police spotted a man in a rural area of flood channels and scrub near the campus. University police tried to detain the man, but he got into his car and fled, authorities said.

"We don't know whether he was an arsonist," said Lt. Scott Patterson of the San Bernardino Police Department, which joined the pursuit. "What was related by the Cal State police was that they tried to contact him as a suspicious person in a brush area. Things being how they are, there was a suspicion that he could be an arsonist."

The area near the campus had been affected by the massive Old Fire of 2003, Patterson said, adding that "it's very fire-prone. It's an area that would be very devastated if a fire were to start there."

The man, whose identity has not been released, drove north on Waterman Avenue and up a dirt fire road up into the foothills. When officers tried to take him into custody, the man began to ram officers' vehicles, Patterson said. Officers shot and killed him.

"Both agencies' officers fired," said University Police Chief Jimmie Brown, who added that they didn't know who fired the fatal shot. "But right now, we don't know too much more."

The shooting is being investigated by the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, which is routine for officer-involved shootings.

About three hours later in Hesperia, a man was seen by a female motorist squatting along the side of Highway 173 just south of Arrowhead Lake Road. Sheriff's officials say John Alfred Rund, 48, of Hesperia had just started a fire along the flat, isolated scrubby road.

The woman called police, and soon Highway Patrol and sheriff's deputies were looking for the suspect, who witnesses said took off on a Honda motorcycle, wearing a red-and-white striped helmet.

Four residents of the area grabbed shovels and put out the brush fire with dirt, said sheriff's spokeswoman Jodi Miller.

A CHP helicopter, using infrared equipment, caught sight of Rund on his motorcycle, Miller said. Along with CHP officers, sheriff's deputies found and arrested Rund at a home along Highway 173 near Highway 138, she said.

He is being held on $750,000 bail on suspicion of arson, and is due in court tomorrow at Victorville Superior Court. Rund is unemployed, Miller said.

"He has not been connected in anyway so far with any fire up on the hill," she said. "We don't know at this point what started that fire."

12:56 PM, Oct 24 2007 in San Bernardino County Fire

Wabash
10-25-2007, 04:34 PM
Whether the dead man is an arsonist or not is to be determined....but, in light of the circumstances, the man engaged in being Felony Stupid and... oh well!