A DIFFERENT WORLD

[issac the dragon]

It was quite a week for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president.

First he faced down the president of Columbia University and a host of hostile questioners in Harlem.


Local papers, such as the Daily News and The New York Post, featured headlines announcing that "The Evil has Landed" and lambasting the "Mad Iran Prez" for his past denials of the Holocaust, refusal to unequivocally renounce a quest for nuclear weapons, and call to have Israel "wiped off the map" (an inaccurate translation of the Persian "bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad," which is better - but less violently and therefore less usefully - rendered in English as "erased from the page of time" or "fate").

Even Lee Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, introduced him with an unprecedented - and to the minds of many academics, not to mention Iranians, uncouth - verbal attack, accusing him of being little more than a "petty dictator".

In its critiques of Ahmadinejad's speech at Columbia, the mainstream US press focused most of its attention on Ahmadinejad's tendentious claim that "there are no homosexuals in Iran" (belied by an evening stroll through Tehran's famous Daneshjoo Park), and his attempt to redefine his position on the Holocaust (it happened, but more research is needed to know its true extent).

At the UN, his criticism of "widespread human rights violations" elicited the expected derisive response in light of his own government's increasingly repressive policies, while his declaration that the nuclear case against Iran "is closed" suggested, to most commentators, continued intransigence by Iran in the face of supposedly universal opposition to its nuclear programme.

Discourteous treatment

Few commentators considered how Ahmadinejad's words were heard outside of the US media circus.

And those who did, such as Timothy Rutton of the LA Times, focused purely on the reaction in the Muslim world, arguing that, as a "totalitarian demagogue", Ahmadinejad gained legitimacy because of the discourteous treatment by Columbia's president.


Ahmadinejad speaks to a wider audience
than just his western listeners [Reuters]

Rutton wrote: "Bollinger's denunciation was icing on the cake, because the constituency the Iranian leader cares about is scattered across an Islamic world that values hospitality and its courtesies as core social virtues."

"To that audience, Bollinger looked stunningly ill-mannered; Ahmadinejad dignified and restrained."

Underlying Rutton's argument is the still-widespread belief, whose roots lie deep in Europe and America's histories as imperial powers, that Muslims and the other formerly colonised peoples value "honour", "pride" and "hospitality" far more than they do issues of substance.

Indeed, they remain incapable of making well-reasoned and documented criticisms of a West, and the United States in particular, that remains by definition technologically, politically, and morally superior to the developing world.

'Poverty and deprivation'

It's no wonder, then, that almost no one in the American media focused on the substantive claims of Ahmadinejad's speech at the UN.

Chief among them were his argument regarding the "alarming situation of poverty and deprivation".

"Let me draw your attention to some data issued by the United Nations," he said, before calling to the attention of the world's leaders the fact that close to one billion people live on less than $1-a-day and that there is a rapidly increasing gap between the world's rich and poor.

He mentioned the continued disgraceful figures for infant mortality, schooling and related human development indicators in the developing world.

Perhaps wanting to be courteous, Ahmadinejad blamed "certain big powers" for the plight of a large share of humanity - he might have added that according to UN estimates almost half the world lives on less than $2 per day.

But he didn't need to name names; most of the developing world, including the Muslim world, share his belief that their plight is linked to a world economic system whose goal, for more than half a millennium, has been to exploit the peoples and resources of the rest of the world for the benefit of the more advanced countries of the West. al Jazeera 10/10/07

The Middle East is so different from us that we will probably never be able to reach an agreement on anything. Certainly not if we continue to violate their most basic customs. This was a shame.

[issac the dragon]

We must recognize the dignity of all people. To treat them with fundamental respect. If we had done that, he might not have been able to make us look so bad. To be rude is one thing. But from the point of view of many in the ME, we don't regard them as humans, and our rudeness to a national leader just intensifies that feeling. We can never win the hearts and minds of the Islamic world if we treat them like naughty children. They have a right to their opinions.

[Kurtz]

'Poverty and deprivation'

It's no wonder, then, that almost no one in the American media focused on the substantive claims of Ahmadinejad's speech at the UN.

Chief among them were his argument regarding the "alarming situation of poverty and deprivation".

"Let me draw your attention to some data issued by the United Nations," he said, before calling to the attention of the world's leaders the fact that close to one billion people live on less than $1-a-day and that there is a rapidly increasing gap between the world's rich and poor.

He mentioned the continued disgraceful figures for infant mortality, schooling and related human development indicators in the developing world.

Perhaps wanting to be courteous, Ahmadinejad blamed "certain big powers" for the plight of a large share of humanity - he might have added that according to UN estimates almost half the world lives on less than $2 per day.

But he didn't need to name names; most of the developing world, including the Muslim world, share his belief that their plight is linked to a world economic system whose goal, for more than half a millennium, has been to exploit the peoples and resources of the rest of the world for the benefit of the more advanced countries of the West. al Jazeera 10/10/07



And this is the truth.


issac, great post!
:clap :clap :clap

[issac the dragon]

I guess I'm trying to get something straight in my own head about the American people. How we are able to so isolate ourselves from the rest of the world to the extent that we cannot understand the innate humanity of other people. We daily kill Iraqis, including babies and children and all that ME people can think of is that the president of a university insulted the president of a nation? Is it possible they are furious that we are murdering them? What in the hell is wrong with the people in this country?

[Wabash]

I really don't know what is wrong with the people in this country. I can't understand it and have never seen this happen in my entire life!

When a large percentage of Americans choose to defend a nutjob from another country and denounce the United States! Maybe not such a large % after all...but at any rate, I just can't understand what is wrong with people..

We are diametrically oppossed to the teachings and actions of these Muslim fanatics. I think we should be defending OUR homeland by word and deed at all costs! Amajenanutjob is NOT the person that should be defended, for any reason.

[The Q]

I really don't know what is wrong with the people in this country. I can't understand it and have never seen this happen in my entire life!

When a large percentage of Americans choose to defend a nutjob from another country and denounce the United States! Maybe not such a large % after all...but at any rate, I just can't understand what is wrong with people..

We are diametrically oppossed to the teachings and actions of these Muslim fanatics. I think we should be defending OUR homeland by word and deed at all costs! Amajenanutjob is NOT the person that should be defended, for any reason.

Wabash, what are you talking about? What is it about Iran that America is opposed to? We hae Shiite Muslims in this country. We also have fundamentalist Christians who believe pretty much the same crap they do, substituting Jesus for Muhammad.

Asking America to treat other nations with respect is not siding with the enemy.

ADQ

[Wabash]

Wabash, what are you talking about? What is it about Iran that America is opposed to? We hae Shiite Muslims in this country. We also have fundamentalist Christians who believe pretty much the same crap they do, substituting Jesus for Muhammad.

Asking America to treat other nations with respect is not siding with the enemy.

ADQ

I'm not talking about religion, nor am I talking about the avg. person. I'm talking about an idealology, and mindset by subversives bent on killing all Americans or converting them to "their" way of thinking. Ahmadjinanutjob is one of those subversives and I don't think anyone should be defending this asshole or his ilk!
It seems that many here, cannot separate the two!

[issac the dragon]

I doubt if it were up to Wabash there would be any Muslims in this country.

[issac the dragon]

I'm not talking about religion, nor am I talking about the avg. person. I'm talking about an idealology, and mindset by subversives bent on killing all Americans or converting them to "their" way of thinking. Ahmadjinanutjob is one of those subversives and I don't think anyone should be defending this asshole or his ilk!
It seems that many here, cannot separate the two!

When did any Iranian say that?

[Wabash]

I doubt if it were up to Wabash there would be any Muslims in this country.

I can get along with ALL people, but I will NOT tolerate people that make idiotic statements about the holocaust or want to kill me!

When did any Iranian say that?

Say WHAT?

[Kurtz]

WE?

Don't include ME in YOUR group of folks!

[toxic]

I'm not talking about religion, nor am I talking about the avg. person. I'm talking about an idealology, and mindset by subversives bent on killing all Americans or converting them to "their" way of thinking. Ahmadjinanutjob is one of those subversives and I don't think anyone should be defending this asshole or his ilk!
It seems that many here, cannot separate the two!

There is no such inherent mindset of the Iranian people.

Not long ago the Iranians were our friends. I'm not sure that has really changed for the Iranian on the street.

Recall our military trained with their military and many trained at our colleges.

They were unhappy that we proped up the Shah who abused them and could not understand why the USA supported that.

I believe the only reason they used religion for their revolution, was because it was the only organization not under the Shah's control.

Ahmadjinedad is not doing anything that any national leader would do, trying to get some respect for himself and his country. I think he would be a breeze to negotiate with.

[Wabash]

Ahmadjinedad is not doing anything that any national leader would do, trying to get some respect for himself and his country. I think he would be a breeze to negotiate with.

Yep! He sure isn't!
Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't...but making the nutjob comments that he has been making...I Know I'd never negotiate with him...

[The Q]

I'm not talking about religion, nor am I talking about the avg. person. I'm talking about an idealology, and mindset by subversives bent on killing all Americans or converting them to "their" way of thinking. Ahmadjinanutjob is one of those subversives and I don't think anyone should be defending this asshole or his ilk!
It seems that many here, cannot separate the two!

The issue we're discussing has NOTHING to do with Ahmedinejad. NOTHING.

The issue we're discussing is whether or not Americans need to learn how to handle themselves with dignity and respect.

We are uncouth, unsophisticated, ignorant and selfish in the eyes of the rest of the world.

I can tell you, because I'm married to someone from another culture. Other cultures are CULTURES. There is protocol when dealing with them! You don't insult people that you want to make peace with.

ADQ

[Kurtz]

:yep
Religion, can't fault religion itself, it's the followers who abuse it that should be condemned. :mad

And toxic, I agree with you, but that's coz I read lots of books 'n real history. :lmao

And Q, thanks for enlightenin' some of our less fortunate ill educated 'Mericans.

[Wabash]

The issue we're discussing has NOTHING to do with Ahmedinejad. NOTHING.

The issue we're discussing is whether or not Americans need to learn how to handle themselves with dignity and respect.

We are uncouth, unsophisticated, ignorant and selfish in the eyes of the rest of the world.

I can tell you, because I'm married to someone from another culture. Other cultures are CULTURES. There is protocol when dealing with them! You don't insult people that you want to make peace with.

ADQ

Well...Excuse the shit out of me, but when I read the FIRST line of the First post..."It was quite a week for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president."........I thought he was the focus!!!
Silly me, it's not about him huh? I would say he IS the focus!

[toxic]

Ahmadjinedad is not doing anything that any national leader would do, trying to get some respect for himself and his country. I think he would be a breeze to negotiate with.

Yep! He sure isn't!
Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't...but making the nutjob comments that he has been making...I Know I'd never negotiate with him...

The President of Columbia, Lee Bollinger, made a much bigger ass of himself.

Bollinger embarrassed Free Speech, Neutral Academia and the American educational system. (excerpts from my letter to him)

Ahmadjinedad showed much more class.

[Wabash]

Iran is working toward a Nuke, Iran is making weapons and supplying them to their enemy combatants in Iraq., Iran kidnapped a number of fellow Americans! Iran is NOT our friend! Now, individuals in Iran and from Iran may be friendly to us, but their country is promoting terrorism and has for a very long time. Defending the Nutjob or his actions or his countries actions....IMHO, is Un-American!

United States...First and Foremost!!!!!

[The Q]

Well...Excuse the shit out of me, but when I read the FIRST line of the First post..."It was quite a week for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president."........I thought he was the focus!!!
Silly me, it's not about him huh? I would say he IS the focus!

No, no, Captain Obvious.

We are discussing the behavior of Americans and how it affects our relationships with other countries--using the visit of MA as the catalyst of the conversation.

It isn't just about Mahmoud -- it could be any foreign head of state who we are dealing with.

It just so happens he was here last week, and now it is in the news.

ADQ

[Kurtz]

Iran is working toward a Nuke, Iran is making weapons and supplying them to their enemy combatants in Iraq., Iran kidnapped a number of fellow Americans! Iran is NOT our friend! Now, individuals in Iran and from Iran may be friendly to us, but their country is promoting terrorism and has for a very long time. Defending the Nutjob or his actions or his countries actions....IMHO, is Un-American!

United States...First and Foremost!!!!!

It ain't about bein' American, it's about world peace thru understanding!

Shit, the USA has a nutjob for a leader and the world
wonders why he was elected to represent this country.

[Wabash]

No, no, Captain Obvious.

We are discussing the behavior of Americans and how it affects our relationships with other countries--using the visit of MA as the catalyst of the conversation.

It isn't just about Mahmoud -- it could be any foreign head of state who we are dealing with.

It just so happens he was here last week, and now it is in the news.

ADQ

Well, why don't we treat OTHER heads of state like this? Would it be because the guy deserves what he got? I think so! I wouldn't have allowed him anywhere except to the UN and I sure as hell wish we'd get OUT of the UN and the UN building out of the US!

It ain't about bein' American, it's about world peace thru understanding!

Shit, the USA has a nutjob for a leader and the world
wonders why he was elected to represent this country.

I understand Perfectly Kurtz! Nutjob is about Killing Americans and Denying the Holocaust, and wiping the Jews off the face of the earth!

YA...That's ALL about Peace and Understanding isn't it?

What the Hell is the matter with you people? Defending an Asshole over your own Country? What is the problem here?

[Wabash]

Speechless? Or What?

[The Q]

:lmao

I'm at work Wabby. You'll have to wait til later for your :godzilla

ADQ

[toxic]

Iran is working toward a Nuke, Iran is making weapons and supplying them to their enemy combatants in Iraq., Iran kidnapped a number of fellow Americans! Iran is NOT our friend! Now, individuals in Iran and from Iran may be friendly to us, but their country is promoting terrorism and has for a very long time. Defending the Nutjob or his actions or his countries actions....IMHO, is Un-American!

United States...First and Foremost!!!!!

Your list rings hollow, because:

Israel Zionists, have 800 nukes with materials and technology supplied by the USA.

The USA has run extensive war games off of the Iranian coast to intimidate and humiliate.

The USA has kidnapped Iranian diplomates.

The USA operates surveillance flights over their soverign territory.

The USA has invaded two of Iran's next door neighbors.

The USA has threatened to bomb Iran in an illegal Pre-emptive Strike.

Bush is not Iran's friend, nor anyone else's friend in the world.

[Wabash]

Your list rings hollow, because:

Israel Zionists, have 800 nukes with materials and technology supplied by the USA.

The USA has run extensive war games off of the Iranian coast to intimidate and humiliate.

The USA has kidnapped Iranian diplomates.

The USA operates surveillance flights over their soverign territory.

The USA has invaded two of Iran's next door neighbors.

The USA has threatened to bomb Iran in an illegal Pre-emptive Strike.

Bush is not Iran's friend, nor anyone else's friend in the world.


Well, since Iran is The enemy of the US and Israel is a tiny country, attempting to defend themselves against all odds, and Iran is behind terrorist attacks all over the world and has been for decades.....what do you expect us to do..Kiss their Ass?

For christsake man...what are you talking about?

America First!!!!

[toxic]

... I understand Perfectly Kurtz! Nutjob is about Killing Americans and Denying the Holocaust, and wiping the Jews off the face of the earth!

YA...That's ALL about Peace and Understanding isn't it?

What the Hell is the matter with you people? Defending an Asshole over your own Country? What is the problem here?

Perhaps you deny the Holocaust too.

Some simplistic Americans think that the Holocaust was ONLY about Jews.

It wasn't.

Gays, alcoholics, handicapped, POWs, immigrants, ... were also executed for not being what the Government thought was normal or had time to deal with.

At Dachau, they tell a moving story of a man from nearby Munich who was reported by his wife to be an Alcoholic. She thought she was sending him to the camp for rehabilitation. Within 2 weeks, he was executed.

The Jewish Lobby has convinced you Neo-Cons that they are the ONLY people that have EVER suffered. They aren't.


The fact is, whenever you hear OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, remember that those are Palestinian Territories TAKEN AND OCCUPIED BY ISRAELIS.

.

[toxic]

Well, since Iran is The enemy of the US and Israel is a tiny country, attempting to defend themselves against all odds, and Iran is behind terrorist attacks all over the world and has been for decades.....what do you expect us to do..Kiss their Ass?

For christsake man...what are you talking about?
America First!!!!

What are you talking about?????

No one is MY ENEMY because a moron like Bush says so.

Been there and done that. Now that intolerable Communist enemy in SE Asia has Most Favored Nation Trading Status with Bush.

Israel is a modern nation WITH 800 NUKES on the Mediterranean Coast with a climate and terrain like the California coast.

The West Bank, Gaza and Iran are friging desert wastelands.

[Wabash]

Perhaps you deny the Holocaust too.

Some simplistic Americans think that the Holocaust was ONLY about Jews.

It wasn't.

Gays, alcoholics, handicapped, POWs, immigrants, ... were also executed for not being what the Government thought was normal or had time to deal with.

At Dachau, they tell a moving story of a man from nearby Munich who was reported by his wife to be an Alcoholic. She thought she was sending him to the camp for rehabilitation. Within 2 weeks, he was executed.

The Jewish Lobby has convinced you Neo-Cons that they are the ONLY people that have EVER suffered. They aren't.


The fact is, whenever you hear OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, remember that those are Palestinian Territories TAKEN AND OCCUPIED BY ISRAELIS.

.


I've got news for you toxic...I've been to Dachau. I was there in '68 and again in '99. I was made aware then and there, that every nation in the world had one or many of their citizens represented at the camps! I fully know that the Jews were Not the only ones persecuted there, but they were by far the most represented!
The thing that struck me the most about my second visit, was how they sanitized the place, to make it look less gruesome or appalling. Example: They took away the lamp, with the shade made out of human skin.

As for the so called "occupied territories"....they belonged to the Jews in the beginning and the Palestianis were a nomadic band of scumbags, that were kicked out of various countries where they tried to "Squat." They finally ended up in Israel. It isn't Their land...it NEVER WAS their land! You have it totally reversed!

Btw...Israel has given up a huge portion of "their" land in trying to avoid war, and appease the Palestians over the last several decades. All for not!
Now, they are fed up and will fight for what is theirs...and I support them Completely!

[Wabash]

What are you talking about?????

No one is MY ENEMY because a moron like Bush says so.

Been there and done that. Now that intolerable Communist enemy in SE Asia has Most Favored Nation Trading Status with Bush.

Israel is a modern nation WITH 800 NUKES on the Mediterranean Coast with a climate and terrain like the California coast.

The West Bank, Gaza and Iran are friging desert wastelands.

It's got nothing to do with Bush! They have been an enemy of the US since the Shah left. That's a No Brainer!
Do you have proof that they have 800 nukes? If so, what's your point?
If these places are wastelands, why don't the Palestians just move on....to a better spot. Are you trying to make these squatters into some kind of martyrs?

[issac the dragon]

The people who took over Palestine had no right to one inch of that land. On what would they lay that claim. A questionable writiing saying god had given it to them? And if every word of the OT was true, the Jews occupied that land a small amount of time. It belonged to the people who lived there and who had lived there for hundreds of years. Do you support the idea of kicking the Europeans and others out of this country and giving it back to the original inhabitants? We have far more claim to it that the Jews did to Palenstine.

[Wabash]

We must recognize the dignity of all people. To treat them with fundamental respect. If we had done that, he might not have been able to make us look so bad. To be rude is one thing. But from the point of view of many in the ME, we don't regard them as humans, and our rudeness to a national leader just intensifies that feeling. We can never win the hearts and minds of the Islamic world if we treat them like naughty children. They have a right to their opinions.

I don't think we looked bad at all! I think we told the world what we think of Hairballs like I'manutjob! It's not the average Islamic person...it's the murderous nutjobs like I'manutjob, Arafat, and the president of Syria!
I think you isaac are seriously lacking in patriotism and common sense! Respect someone who respects you...the goof balls above do not and never have!
I'm not saying that the US is as pure as the driven snow, we have our goofballs too...but I would NEVER denounce this coutry's actions over that of Iran...Never, never, never!

[Kurtz]

I don't think we looked bad at all! I think we told the world what we think of Hairballs like I'manutjob! It's not the average Islamic person...it's the murderous nutjobs like I'manutjob, Arafat, and the president of Syria!
I think you isaac are seriously lacking in patriotism and common sense! Respect someone who respects you...the goof balls above do not and never have!
I'm not saying that the US is as pure as the driven snow, we have our goofballs too...but I would NEVER denounce this coutry's actions over that of Iran...Never, never, never!


So keep lyin' to yourself then, but don't belittle us who don't think like you.
Some of us actually believe in the concept of world peace and strive towards it.
And we will tell the truth even if it is the horrible truth about the US 'n bush.

[cassandra]

Interesting thread so far. I think it is interesting how many are supporters of world peace and yet support a country that has, in fact attacked our own country.

I can agree with Q that American's think it is all about them. Course other cultures do too, but since they call it culture we should be more respectful of it.

[Wabash]

So keep lyin' to yourself then, but don't belittle us who don't think like you.
Some of us actually believe in the concept of world peace and strive towards it.
And we will tell the truth even if it is the horrible truth about the US 'n bush.

Hey...Speak your piece! I just don't undrstand it, and never will. World Peace is a MYTH ...just like man made GW!
But, you gotta do what ya gotta do....

Some folks in this country voted for a bunch of asshole Democrats...who provide nothing but lip service to their fringe groups....their approval numbers are lower then Bush. Do you honestly think Billary or Obama are going to make a huge difference? They are pawns in a game, figure heads.
The only thing the Demos will bring to us is higher taxes, fucked up socialized health care, and less freedoms overall!

I think this board is made up mostly from that fringe group...

[Kurtz]

Interesting thread so far. I think it is interesting how many are supporters of world peace and yet support a country that has, in fact attacked our own country.

I can agree with Q that American's think it is all about them. Course other cultures do too, but since they call it culture we should be more respectful of it.


And what country might that be, the one that attacked America?

[cassandra]

I appologize, I mispoke. I was working on too many other things and my mind mixed up several threads. You would be correct.

[Kurtz]

I appologize, I mispoke. I was working on too many other things and my mind mixed up several threads. You would be correct.

Good, I know you are a busy woman, but I also know you're a smart woman. :lol

You musta just got carried away with your passion for the subject matter. :wink

[Wabash]

And what country might that be, the one that attacked America?

Now, let me think back here.....how about the USS Cole, orchestrated by Osama, with help from Iran.
Khobar Towers, an attack from Hezbollah, financed by Iran.

Iran is still listed by the State Department as the world's most active state supporter of terrorism, largely because of its support for Hezbollah and for the Palestinian groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. The assets of those groups are frozen under previous executive orders that appear to be less sweeping than the two most recent orders.

[Mack the Knife]

I guess I'm trying to get something straight in my own head about the American people. How we are able to so isolate ourselves from the rest of the world to the extent that we cannot understand the innate humanity of other people. We daily kill Iraqis, including babies and children and all that ME people can think of is that the president of a university insulted the president of a nation? Is it possible they are furious that we are murdering them? What in the hell is wrong with the people in this country?


I'm afraid you are carrying the Move On message as the Troops do not willingly or maliciously kill women & children, that is the handy work of the Sunnis & Al Qadea, with their sapper bombs & IED's. We do not kill Iraqis in general, unless the Iraqis are old Saddam loyalists and they fire upon Troops.

It was a mistake to allow the Iranian dictator anymore latitude than the UN, and asking Americans to dignify this man is an insult, especially to the Jewish world. Feel sorry for some who needs feeling sorry for, not Dictators that would cut your throat!

[Wabash]

Gibbs Magazine



Islamic Republic of Iran vs. The United States of America

By Gary Norris Gray

The United States and Iran have not been the best of friends since the Ayatollah Khomeini returned from France in 1980. In 1978 the American Embassy in Tehran was over-run and occupied for over a year by Iranian university students. That act was the downfall of a great American leader President Jimmy Carter. His unsuccessful attempt to bring our embassy employee’s home resulted in the election of Ronald Reagan.

In the 1980’s Iraq and Iran endured eight years of war, and the United States gave military aid to Saddam Hussein's Iraq (who invaded Iran) because the United States did not want another Islamic Republic in the Middle East. In this process America became alienated from the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The Iran-Iraq War was one of the world’s biggest tragedies. America and the western world ignored this tragic event. Now that ignorance has come back to haunt the United States and her western allies.

On Friday April 28, 2006, the United States of America and the United Nations Security Council set a deadline for the Islamic Republic of Iran to stop its alleged nuclear weapons production. Does this sound familiar? Four years ago under the guidance of President George W. Bush, the US warned Iraq regarding building similar weapons. The Bush Administration is now citing information from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IACA) on the Islamic Republic of Iran’s new atomic weapons program. The IACA stated that Iran could attain a serviceable nuclear weapon within a five to ten year period.

The question now is did the Bush Administration learn anything in the past four years? Iran is not Iraq. The military administrators and officers of Iran do not have the constraints that the Iraqi military acquired under the leadership of Saddam Hussein. Iran’s military apparatus is independent and will give any opposition a formidable battle.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the American UN delegation will present a portfolio of facts on the construction of nuclear materials in the Islamic Republic of Iran. As New York Yankee and New York Mets coach Yogi Berra would say, “It’s deja-vu all over again.” Four years ago Former Secretary of State Colin Powell brought military charts, reconnaissance photos, and secret tape messages of Iraqi military personnel discussing Iraq’s weapons and military capabilities. Also four years ago some western nations believed the military intelligence of both the United States and Great Britain. Now it is three years later and the world is still waiting for the evidence of weapons of mass destruction (WMD’s) in Iraq. What evidence will Secretary of State Rice bring to the United Nations this month? This time the evidence must be overwhelming and without questions. This time it will be difficult to persuade our western allies to use military force against Iran.

Professor George Bisharat, U.C. Berkeley’s Hastings School of Law, says that a nuclear attack on Iran would be immoral, illegal, and politically disastrous. And the political rhetoric has already begun: President George W. Bush has stated twice that the new leader of Iran could be equated to Adolph Hitler, the World War II German Republic leader. This is disrespectful rhetoric. And the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad continues to fan the flames, stating, “That the Jewish State of Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth and the infidels of the West must be defeated.”

This current political confrontation and war of words has been escalating and has now become another dangerous situation for world peace. This delicate political situation must be handled with careful and skillful diplomacy. Something the Bush Administration has not shown it knows anything about.

The Bush Administration has adopted the policies of preemptive strikes meaning a military attack on any country before it militarily attacks the United States. President Bush became the first American president to ever use this military tactic. History will reveal if he made the right decision.

Four years ago the Bush Administration had the support of most western world leaders. Four years ago the United Kingdom stated that it would send troops to Iraq in support of her sister state, US of America. Prime Minister Blair has stated this week that Great Britain would not take any military action against Iran. This political statement shows the world that the Bush administration no longer has the England's political support.

Iran can rely on her allies Russia, Mainland China, and France to block any American-UN sanctions. These three United Nation Security Council members rely on Iranian oil to sustain their economies, so it will be very difficult for the United States to get an unanimous decision on future Iranian sanctions. A veto from any one of the three would scuttle American-United Nation sanctions. The Bush administration will have to return to the art of political negotiations, an attribute lacking in this present administration. The United States and the world cannot afford another military conflict in the Middle East. Most Americans and world leaders do not want another atomic explosion anywhere on the planet earth.

[Wabash]

Last I recall...France has joined the US in denouncing Iran....

World peace is a MYTH and a Pipe Dream by many!

Beating your enemies to a pulp might achive world peace....

[Wabash]

I'm afraid you are carrying the Move On message as the Troops do not willingly or maliciously kill women & children, that is the handy work of the Sunnis & Al Qadea, with their sapper bombs & IED's. We do not kill Iraqis in general, unless the Iraqis are old Saddam loyalists and they fire upon Troops.

It was a mistake to allow the Iranian dictator anymore latitude than the UN, and asking Americans to dignify this man is an insult, especially to the Jewish world. Feel sorry for some who needs feeling sorry for, not Dictators that would cut your throat!

Outstanding post Mack!!!:paclap:paclap:paclap:paclap

[Trueblue]

Well, why don't we treat OTHER heads of state like this? Would it be because the guy deserves what he got? I think so! I wouldn't have allowed him anywhere except to the UN and I sure as hell wish we'd get OUT of the UN and the UN building out of the US!



I understand Perfectly Kurtz! Nutjob is about Killing Americans and Denying the Holocaust, and wiping the Jews off the face of the earth!

YA...That's ALL about Peace and Understanding isn't it?

What the Hell is the matter with you people? Defending an Asshole over your own Country? What is the problem here?

Who "defended" him over America?

I've got news for you toxic...I've been to Dachau. I was there in '68 and again in '99. I was made aware then and there, that every nation in the world had one or many of their citizens represented at the camps! I fully know that the Jews were Not the only ones persecuted there, but they were by far the most represented!
The thing that struck me the most about my second visit, was how they sanitized the place, to make it look less gruesome or appalling. Example: They took away the lamp, with the shade made out of human skin.

As for the so called "occupied territories"....they belonged to the Jews in the beginning and the Palestianis were a nomadic band of scumbags, that were kicked out of various countries where they tried to "Squat." They finally ended up in Israel. It isn't Their land...it NEVER WAS their land! You have it totally reversed!

Btw...Israel has given up a huge portion of "their" land in trying to avoid war, and appease the Palestians over the last several decades. All for not!
Now, they are fed up and will fight for what is theirs...and I support them Completely!

Yes, it was the land of the people who lived there. When are you going to give your property back to the native Americans?

[Kurtz]

Gibbs Magazine



Islamic Republic of Iran vs. The United States of America

By Gary Norris Gray

The United States and Iran have not been the best of friends since the Ayatollah Khomeini returned from France in 1980. In 1978 the American Embassy in Tehran was over-run and occupied for over a year by Iranian university students. That act was the downfall of a great American leader President Jimmy Carter. His unsuccessful attempt to bring our embassy employee’s home resulted in the election of Ronald Reagan.

In the 1980’s Iraq and Iran endured eight years of war, and the United States gave military aid to Saddam Hussein's Iraq (who invaded Iran) because the United States did not want another Islamic Republic in the Middle East. In this process America became alienated from the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The Iran-Iraq War was one of the world’s biggest tragedies. America and the western world ignored this tragic event. Now that ignorance has come back to haunt the United States and her western allies.

On Friday April 28, 2006, the United States of America and the United Nations Security Council set a deadline for the Islamic Republic of Iran to stop its alleged nuclear weapons production. Does this sound familiar? Four years ago under the guidance of President George W. Bush, the US warned Iraq regarding building similar weapons. The Bush Administration is now citing information from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IACA) on the Islamic Republic of Iran’s new atomic weapons program. The IACA stated that Iran could attain a serviceable nuclear weapon within a five to ten year period.

The question now is did the Bush Administration learn anything in the past four years? Iran is not Iraq. The military administrators and officers of Iran do not have the constraints that the Iraqi military acquired under the leadership of Saddam Hussein. Iran’s military apparatus is independent and will give any opposition a formidable battle.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and the American UN delegation will present a portfolio of facts on the construction of nuclear materials in the Islamic Republic of Iran. As New York Yankee and New York Mets coach Yogi Berra would say, “It’s deja-vu all over again.” Four years ago Former Secretary of State Colin Powell brought military charts, reconnaissance photos, and secret tape messages of Iraqi military personnel discussing Iraq’s weapons and military capabilities. Also four years ago some western nations believed the military intelligence of both the United States and Great Britain. Now it is three years later and the world is still waiting for the evidence of weapons of mass destruction (WMD’s) in Iraq. What evidence will Secretary of State Rice bring to the United Nations this month? This time the evidence must be overwhelming and without questions. This time it will be difficult to persuade our western allies to use military force against Iran.

Professor George Bisharat, U.C. Berkeley’s Hastings School of Law, says that a nuclear attack on Iran would be immoral, illegal, and politically disastrous. And the political rhetoric has already begun: President George W. Bush has stated twice that the new leader of Iran could be equated to Adolph Hitler, the World War II German Republic leader. This is disrespectful rhetoric. And the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad continues to fan the flames, stating, “That the Jewish State of Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth and the infidels of the West must be defeated.”

This current political confrontation and war of words has been escalating and has now become another dangerous situation for world peace. This delicate political situation must be handled with careful and skillful diplomacy. Something the Bush Administration has not shown it knows anything about.

The Bush Administration has adopted the policies of preemptive strikes meaning a military attack on any country before it militarily attacks the United States. President Bush became the first American president to ever use this military tactic. History will reveal if he made the right decision.

Four years ago the Bush Administration had the support of most western world leaders. Four years ago the United Kingdom stated that it would send troops to Iraq in support of her sister state, US of America. Prime Minister Blair has stated this week that Great Britain would not take any military action against Iran. This political statement shows the world that the Bush administration no longer has the England's political support.

Iran can rely on her allies Russia, Mainland China, and France to block any American-UN sanctions. These three United Nation Security Council members rely on Iranian oil to sustain their economies, so it will be very difficult for the United States to get an unanimous decision on future Iranian sanctions. A veto from any one of the three would scuttle American-United Nation sanctions. The Bush administration will have to return to the art of political negotiations, an attribute lacking in this present administration. The United States and the world cannot afford another military conflict in the Middle East. Most Americans and world leaders do not want another atomic explosion anywhere on the planet earth.


Do you ever read this stuff you post? :confused

This article presents good argument against YOUR position.

[Wabash]

Who "defended" him over America?



Yes, it was the land of the people who lived there. When are you going to give your property back to the native Americans?

Isaac!

I'm not, they were a conquered people and we should give the Indians Nothing back...Paying out all the money we have been for the last 30 years or more is just stupid! Because the Libs feel soooo guilty about conquering them! Ridiculous!

Do you ever read this stuff you post? :confused

This article presents good argument against YOUR position.

You are partially correct, I only scanned it hurridly because I'm doing other stuff. However, it gets across my point that I'manutjob is a scumbag!

[Wabash]

Who "defended" him over America?



Yes, it was the land of the people who lived there. When are you going to give your property back to the native Americans?

It was Jewish land and they were driven off and returned in '48 and reclaimed it. It was NEVER Palestian land! Arafat and the boys didn't show up until after the Jews reclaimed THEIR land!

[issac the dragon]

I'm afraid you are carrying the Move On message as the Troops do not willingly or maliciously kill women & children, that is the handy work of the Sunnis & Al Qadea, with their sapper bombs & IED's. We do not kill Iraqis in general, unless the Iraqis are old Saddam loyalists and they fire upon Troops.

It was a mistake to allow the Iranian dictator anymore latitude than the UN, and asking Americans to dignify this man is an insult, especially to the Jewish world. Feel sorry for some who needs feeling sorry for, not Dictators that would cut your throat!

Funny, I keep reading about Iraqi civilians being killed. And that is just our mercenaries. We do not report the numbers of people who are killed when we bomb whole neighborhoods. The newspapers never tell about it. But you can find the information. Occasionally, there will be a story in the back pages about something else. Like a report that we killed some leader, and 50 other people who got in the way. You must think we are having the only war in recent history that doesn't deliberately kill civilians. And when you bomb a neighborhood knowing that civilians will die, it is deliberate.

[Wabash]

Do you ever read this stuff you post? :confused

This article presents good argument against YOUR position.

You added stuff that isn't there....and who the hell is talking about a NUKE explosion?

A surgical strike w/o nukes will do the job, just like we did to Khadafi! These guys are the ENEMY of the US...part of the Axis of Evil, how come you guys can't come to grips with this?

[issac the dragon]

You have been listening to the fascist in the WH again. And I mean Cheney. He is trying to start a war with Iran. Rice is trying very hard to control Cheney. Cheney is not only a fascist, he is nuts.

[patriotsblade]

Wabash, we went round and round with a particular nation that wanted our destruction for over 40 years. Proxy wars, threats, an arms race. They, like Iran, had a miserable human rights record and some of the coldest, most maniacal leaders one could imagine. How is it we managed to avoid full out apocolyptic disaster?







We never stopped talking with them.

[Trueblue]

It was Jewish land and they were driven off and returned in '48 and reclaimed it. It was NEVER Palestian land! Arafat and the boys didn't show up until after the Jews reclaimed THEIR land!

You added stuff that isn't there....and who the hell is talking about a NUKE explosion?

A surgical strike w/o nukes will do the job, just like we did to Khadafi! These guys are the ENEMY of the US...part of the Axis of Evil, how come you guys can't come to grips with this?

Issac DID NOT place anyone over the US.

The Jews were driven off the land how long ago? You know that is a bogus argument.

From what I have read, a surgical strike on Iran is a pipe dream.

We can't go around bombing half the world, when are you going to come to grips with that?

[Kurtz]

Do you ever read this stuff you post? :confused

This article presents good argument against YOUR position.

You added stuff that isn't there....and who the hell is talking about a NUKE explosion?

A surgical strike w/o nukes will do the job, just like we did to Khadafi! These guys are the ENEMY of the US...part of the Axis of Evil, how come you guys can't come to grips with this?

I didn't add shit to your posted article.
I bolded it, that's what I do, I never alter words.
And you know it! :lol




I didn't do shit to his damn article,
bolded it, that's what I always do,
he just didn't read the damn thang!
:kickcan

[Wabash]

You have been listening to the fascist in the WH again. And I mean Cheney. He is trying to start a war with Iran. Rice is trying very hard to control Cheney. Cheney is not only a fascist, he is nuts.

Well isaac, that is characterized by your use of the word.

As a political epithet, the word fascist has been applied to a broad range of people and groups on the extreme right for the most part, but also to groups on the far left and most points in between. It has also been applied to people of many religious faiths, particularly fundamentalist group.

The word "fascist" when used in this sense is meant to mean "oppressive," "intolerant," "chauvinist," "genocidal", "dictatorial," "racist" and/or "aggressive," all concepts that are at least loosely inspired by the ideology of actual fascism.

One might accuse an inconveniently placed police road block as being a "fascist tactic" or an overly authoritarian teacher as being "a total fascist." Terms like "Nazi" and "Hitlerite," correctly or incorrectly, are often used in similar contexts.

During the late 1960s and 1970s, 'fascist' was popular term used by liberals to describe a wide range of individuals, governments, and public institutions.

In the 1980s the term was used by leftist critics to describe the Reagan administration and in the 2000s, the George W. Bush administration.

By the 2000s, the term was just as frequently used in the opposite direction. Following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, a number of commentators, particularly in the United States, began using the term "Islamofascism" to describe Islamism and militant Islam. On August 10, 2006, in the wake of an alleged terror plot foiled in London, President Bush described the war on terror as a war against "Islamic fascists".

The National Review online editor Jonah Goldberg presents a perspective that fascism is fostered from liberal ideals, as the title of his upcoming 2007 book Liberal Fascism: The Totalitarian Temptation from Mussolini to Hillary Clinton asserts.


Soooooooo, isaac, your ues of the word is suspect to me and typical of very left leaning folks who dearly like to label Conservative intelligent people is a negative way!
As for Cheney...I think you are reaching.

[issac the dragon]

I think Wabash knows that. He's just embarassed because his article says the exact opposite of what he meant to say.

[Wabash]

Wabash, we went round and round with a particular nation that wanted our destruction for over 40 years. Proxy wars, threats, an arms race. They, like Iran, had a miserable human rights record and some of the coldest, most maniacal leaders one could imagine. How is it we managed to avoid full out apocolyptic disaster?







We never stopped talking with them.
You have a point!

Issac DID NOT place anyone over the US.

The Jews were driven off the land how long ago? You know that is a bogus argument.

From what I have read, a surgical strike on Iran is a pipe dream.

We can't go around bombing half the world, when are you going to come to grips with that?

We don't have to go around bombing half the world...that's a REAL stretch! Besides, Britain and now France see the danger that Iran is posing!

As for Israel, the point being is it's their land and not the Palestians' land!

I didn't add shit to your posted article.
I bolded it, that's what I do, I never alter words.
And you know it! :lol




I didn't do shit to his damn article,
bolded it, that's what I always do,
he just didn't read the damn thang!
:kickcan

Ok, my mistake....

I think Wabash knows that. He's just embarassed because his article says the exact opposite of what he meant to say.

Well, it did and it didn't, I'm not embarassed at all, I was trying to help you guys out with your lame argument!

[issac the dragon]

Wabash, I am aware that there are liberal fascists. I have expressed admiration for the 'old Republican' party on this board before. That does not negate the fact that Cheney is a fascist, or that the Bush's have been fascist since Prescott Bush.

[Wabash]

Wabash, I am aware that there are liberal fascists. I have expressed admiration for the 'old Republican' party on this board before. That does not negate the fact that Cheney is a fascist, or that the Bush's have been fascist since Prescott Bush.

Well, I do agree that Cheney is a scary dude...especially with a shotgun.:rofl and he may well be part of the Shadow Govt. Yep, the Bush's have been a power force as well, Bush I was head of the CIA.....he knows a LOT!

I'm not convinced that they are bad for the country thou.....Jimmy was bad for the country, so don't go believing everything he is saying about Cheney!

[Trueblue]

Half the world is pretty close, Wabash. Once it's Iran, you'll come up with somebody else.

[Wabash]

Half the world is pretty close, Wabash. Once it's Iran, you'll come up with somebody else.

Not even Close..not even! And....it's not up to me...I have no say in it, but if they are a threat, we should take em out!

We should all leave that to the ones who are in the know....no one here really is....

[Trueblue]

China, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Russia......

sounds like half the world to me.

And I'm not leaving my fate in the hands of assholes like Cheney and Bush simply because they are "in the know".

[issac the dragon]

I don't understand people who want somebody to take care of them. A lot of Germans thought exactly like that. Look where it got them. I don't want the fascists in charge. And I don't want somebody taking care of me. I'll stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions. You want some one else making your decisions, go to some right wing dictatorship. Or stay here if another Repulbican gets elected.

[Wabash]

China, Korea, Iran, Iraq, Russia......

sounds like half the world to me.

And I'm not leaving my fate in the hands of assholes like Cheney and Bush simply because they are "in the know".

We bombed China, Russia and Iran? When was that?
Leave your fate in the hands of assholes? You don't have any say. Well ya, you can vote, but basically you don't have any say in it! If it is necessary, it will be done, by Billary or Obama or anyone else. Unless they happen to surrender!:lol

I don't understand people who want somebody to take care of them. A lot of Germans thought exactly like that. Look where it got them. I don't want the fascists in charge. And I don't want somebody taking care of me. I'll stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions. You want some one else making your decisions, go to some right wing dictatorship. Or stay here if another Repulbican gets elected.

I never said I wanted anyone to take care of me. But, now that you brought it up, that's EXACTLY what the Govt. does, and Libs want it more then anyone!
You don't want the facist in charge? I don't want pacificists, liberal idealogs in charge!
You are laughable to the Max! You act as thou the defense of the country is something you know something about!:rofl:rofl Too funny isaac. Stand on your own two feet? What are we talking renters rights or something? That may be in your purview, but not the security of the country...you are powerless!

You can make all the decisions you want to, but you are powerless to do anything about them...Just like TB it's an ideal, but not reality!

Both of you are hilarious!

[Wabash]

I can take care of myself too, on a small scale...but anything else, you better leave to someone who really knows something! You guys are all keyboard warriors! Too funny!:lol:lol:lol

[Yellowdogtexan]

The nuclear weapon claims about Iraq sound too much like the faked or fixed WMD claims from the bushies about Saddam. The IAEA is monitoring Iran and thinks that there is no proof that Iran is pursing a bomb at this time. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/08/4404On every point, the case made against Iran collapses upon closer scrutiny. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), mandated to investigate Iran’s nuclear programs, has concluded that there is no evidence that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons program. Furthermore, the IAEA has concluded that it is capable of monitoring the Iranian nuclear program to ensure that it does not deviate from the permitted nuclear energy program Iran states to be the exclusive objective of its endeavors.The IAEA was also corrrect on Iraq but the US did not listen. The bushies have tried fixing the facts and the intelligence so many times that I have trouble believing any claims about Iran's nuclear program without true international proof.

[Kurtz]

The nuclear weapon claims about Iraq sound too much like the faked or fixed WMD claims from the bushies about Saddam. The IAEA is monitoring Iran and thinks that there is no proof that Iran is pursing a bomb at this time. http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/08/4404The IAEA was also corrrect on Iraq but the US did not listen. The bushies have tried fixing the facts and the intelligence so many times that I have trouble believing any claims about Iran's nuclear program without true international proof.


Exactly!
We KNOW bush cronies lie.

[Trueblue]

We bombed China, Russia and Iran? When was that?
Leave your fate in the hands of assholes? You don't have any say. Well ya, you can vote, but basically you don't have any say in it! If it is necessary, it will be done, by Billary or Obama or anyone else. Unless they happen to surrender!:lol

I didn't say that we did-just that you want to.

I do have a lot of say. Bush hasn't invaded Iraq because of public pressure.

Issac nailed it-neither she nor I want to subject to those "in the know". We want to live in a nation like America. :cheer

[Wabash]

I didn't say that we did-just that you want to.

I do have a lot of say. Bush hasn't invaded Iraq because of public pressure.

Issac nailed it-neither she nor I want to subject to those "in the know". We want to live in a nation like America. :cheer

I never talked about bombing China or Russia, but Iran only if necessary.
Public pressure? What a laugh! Still making funnies huh?
Well, you live in La La Land, both of you.....the people in the know, know ...and you guys really know little! Totally arrogant to think that you do.....neither one of you would have a clue about running the military, foreign relations, security....you are both keyboarders with an OPINION! Nothing more! You control NOTHING!
America is not much different then many other countries.....You can vote for the candidate you think will represent you, but have little power outside of that...

[Trueblue]

I never talked about bombing China or Russia, but Iran only if necessary.
Public pressure? What a laugh! Still making funnies huh?
Well, you live in La La Land, both of you.....the people in the know, know ...and you guys really know little! Totally arrogant to think that you do.....neither one of you would have a clue about running the military, foreign relations, security....you are both keyboarders with an OPINION! Nothing more! You control NOTHING!
America is not much different then many other countries.....You can vote for the candidate you think will represent you, but have little power outside of that...

Yes, public pressure. I live in the real world, and we'd love to have you visit sometime!

Bush has responded to public pressure. It's a powerful motivator-ever seen how folks on both the right and left scramble to get in good with the public?

I'm a keyboard warrior here, just like you. I also go out into the real live world. I wouldn't know about how to run the military, but I do have enough sense to read and educate myself about the possibility of a war with Iran. One of the things I learned is that a surgical strike is a fantasy.

[Wabash]

Yes, public pressure. I live in the real world, and we'd love to have you visit sometime!

Bush has responded to public pressure. It's a powerful motivator-ever seen how folks on both the right and left scramble to get in good with the public?

I'm a keyboard warrior here, just like you. I also go out into the real live world. I wouldn't know about how to run the military, but I do have enough sense to read and educate myself about the possibility of a war with Iran. One of the things I learned is that a surgical strike is a fantasy.

It worked very well on Khadfi!
It also worked well on the aspirin factory!
It's not fantasy at all....
You continue to amuse me...the "real world", I've done sooo much more then you in the real world, all over the world, then you could fathom.

[Wabash]

We must follow the Right path TB, it's the best way, just ask Monica..
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x77/watermelon039/Monica.jpg

[The Q]

Good one Wabby! :lmao

ADQ

[Wabash]

Good one Wabby! :lmao

ADQ

Thanks..it just cracked me up when I got it and I was Compelled to share!:D

[Wabash]

What are you talking about?????

No one is MY ENEMY because a moron like Bush says so.

Been there and done that. Now that intolerable Communist enemy in SE Asia has Most Favored Nation Trading Status with Bush.

Israel is a modern nation WITH 800 NUKES on the Mediterranean Coast with a climate and terrain like the California coast.

The West Bank, Gaza and Iran are friging desert wastelands.

This got past me yesterday, but I remembered it today...Gaza is on the coast and I wouldn't characterize it as part of a a desert wasteland.

[cassandra]

Wabash that is the best avatar EVER!!!!!!!!!!

[Wabash]

Wabash that is the best avatar EVER!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you so much.....it is my favorite now.:wink

[Lone Laugher]

Well isaac, that is characterized by your use of the word.

As a political epithet, the word fascist has been applied to a broad range of people and groups on the extreme right for the most part, but also to groups on the far left and most points in between. It has also been applied to people of many religious faiths, particularly fundamentalist group.

The word "fascist" when used in this sense is meant to mean "oppressive," "intolerant," "chauvinist," "genocidal", "dictatorial," "racist" and/or "aggressive," all concepts that are at least loosely inspired by the ideology of actual fascism.

One might accuse an inconveniently placed police road block as being a "fascist tactic" or an overly authoritarian teacher as being "a total fascist." Terms like "Nazi" and "Hitlerite," correctly or incorrectly, are often used in similar contexts.

During the late 1960s and 1970s, 'fascist' was popular term used by liberals to describe a wide range of individuals, governments, and public institutions.

In the 1980s the term was used by leftist critics to describe the Reagan administration and in the 2000s, the George W. Bush administration.

By the 2000s, the term was just as frequently used in the opposite direction. Following the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, a number of commentators, particularly in the United States, began using the term "Islamofascism" to describe Islamism and militant Islam. On August 10, 2006, in the wake of an alleged terror plot foiled in London, President Bush described the war on terror as a war against "Islamic fascists".

The National Review online editor Jonah Goldberg presents a perspective that fascism is fostered from liberal ideals, as the title of his upcoming 2007 book Liberal Fascism: The Totalitarian Temptation from Mussolini to Hillary Clinton asserts.


Soooooooo, isaac, your ues of the word is suspect to me and typical of very left leaning folks who dearly like to label Conservative intelligent people is a negative way!
As for Cheney...I think you are reaching.


Wabash...you are not capable of writing the above passage....please cite the author.

[Lone Laugher]

It worked very well on Khadfi!
It also worked well on the aspirin factory!
It's not fantasy at all....
You continue to amuse me...the "real world", I've done sooo much more then you in the real world, all over the world, then you could fathom.


Yes Wabby, you are most asuredly a renaissance man.

You claim to be a world traveller. Usually, such experiences lead one to realize that an "America first" point of view is counter-productive. Usually, people who travel extensively come back with a BETTER understanding of what makes people of other cultures tick and they have MORE compassion for those people....meaning they would be LESS apt to call for military action...what happened in your case?