The soul

[sparks]

I'd just like to hear everybodies definition of what they believe the soul to be.

[Viki]

Great question, Sparks.

I'm rather torn on the issue, actually. I do believe it's helpful (and poetic) to describe who we are as body, mind, and spirit.

But, on the other hand, the Greek concept of the eternal soul, distinct from the body, which has become so dominant in the stories we've told about "out of body experiences" is not something with which I totally resonate.

As a biologist, and someone who tends towards a Pauline and Hebraic tradition, I lean more towards the idea that we are "one," a distinct unity, and that when we die, we absolutely die, and that it is only when God remembers us, at the end of time, that we are "re-membered."

[sparks]

The dictionary describes it this way:

1: the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life

2 a: the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe bcapitalized Christian Science : god 1b

3: a person's total self

4 a: an active or essential part b: a moving spirit : leader

5 a: the moral and emotional nature of human beings b: the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c: spiritual or moral force : fervor

6: person <not a soul in sight>

7: personification <she is the soul of integrity>

8 a: a strong positive feeling (as of intense sensitivity and emotional fervor) conveyed especially by black American performers b: negritude c: soul music d: soul food e: soul brother

I kind of view the soul of a person to be their heart...what their heart holds.

[Viki]

The dictionary describes it this way:



I kind of view the soul of a person to be their heart...what their heart holds.

Yes, you see, I think that's helpful, in that it communicates something different from what we usually mean when we say body or mind.

[MW]

I don't know how to define "soul". But I see the body as a shell for your soul. Your soul is not a physical thing, more like the little voice of conscience.

[Kurtz]

I've been told I don't have one so I don't think about it anymore.
I used to think about that stuff alot when I was younger, but then one day I realized I was thinkin' about stuff that other's judge for me regardless of what I think, so hell, I let 'em, gives me more time to do other stuff.

But I do like to hear how others see themselves.
Great post, sparks. :clap:clap

[bluedog]

The "soul" is that part of man that makes him "unique" as compared to other bio life forms. Man is the "only" creature to be made in the "image" of the creator....IE God.

Animals have a soul in the sense that they posses life, but one must consider such as the fact that a common Hebrew word translated "life"(soul) is the term "NEPHESH". Nephesh is used in describing life or breath of both man and animals (Gen 1:20, 30; 19:17). Life is that state that is the opposite of death. It is a state of animation, breathing, and being self aware. Men and animals alike posses a soul in the sense of breath(Nephesh), but only man was created in the image of God.

Man's soul is that which "quickens" or makes him alive. As God animated man in the beginning, by giving him both life and soul, that which God gave in the beginning simply goes back to the rightful owner thereof when animation of life ceases.....to JUDGE as he will.

If mans soul is free from sin then it is accepted back to become part of the "whole" from which it derived, once again. If it is not sin free, it must spend eternity separated from God, as God can not bear to look upon sin in any fashion.

Even the "methodology" of science confirms the fact that once energy is created that it can not be destroyed, only "transformed". Thus even "science" confirms the fact that the "soul" of man is eternal....it just can not explain what happens to that "energy" that "animates" man when the life function ceases. Thus the "spirit" of man is "unmeasurable", by the technology of mankind. BD

[bluedog]

Another example of "explaining" the human soul...is a simple exercise that any "intelligent" human with basic cognation to reason can preform.

Please give a brief "narrative" of your concept of one of the most basic and simple accepted fact of life here in this physical realm. If you can preform this simple task then you have the both the "ability" and the "authority" to define the facts concerning the "human soul".

We all accept the fact and actions of what we commonly call the "WIND". Please give a simple narrative description to project your "vision" as to what the wind actually is. Do not explain where the winds comes from, what makes it function as it does.....simply "describe" the wind as to have the understanding and edification to make even the "blind" understand with a mental picture, what in fact is the wind. One can not deny the fact that it exists, as we can "feel" the action of its function. One can not deny the fact that we "see" the direct results of that action.....But can anyone please just describe the WIND...by painting a "mental image" of what it is in simple words of communication? BD

[issac the dragon]

I tend to be an animist. I believe all things have spirits. Even rocks and trees. Must be the fusion of the Irish and Indian in me.

[cassandra]

The dictionary describes it this way:



I kind of view the soul of a person to be their heart...what their heart holds.

I like this description. :D I think it is something that is not tangible but what gives a person life.

[The Q]

I don't know exactly what the soul is. But I know James Brown had it.

:Q

ADQ

[sparks]

The "soul" is that part of man that makes him "unique" as compared to other bio life forms. Man is the "only" creature to be made in the "image" of the creator....IE God.

Animals have a soul in the sense that they posses life, but one must consider such as the fact that a common Hebrew word translated "life"(soul) is the term "NEPHESH". Nephesh is used in describing life or breath of both man and animals (Gen 1:20, 30; 19:17). Life is that state that is the opposite of death. It is a state of animation, breathing, and being self aware. Men and animals alike posses a soul in the sense of breath(Nephesh), but only man was created in the image of God.

Man's soul is that which "quickens" or makes him alive. As God animated man in the beginning, by giving him both life and soul, that which God gave in the beginning simply goes back to the rightful owner thereof when animation of life ceases.....to JUDGE as he will.

If mans soul is free from sin then it is accepted back to become part of the "whole" from which it derived, once again. If it is not sin free, it must spend eternity separated from God, as God can not bear to look upon sin in any fashion.
Even the "methodology" of science confirms the fact that once energy is created that it can not be destroyed, only "transformed". Thus even "science" confirms the fact that the "soul" of man is eternal....it just can not explain what happens to that "energy" that "animates" man when the life function ceases. Thus the "spirit" of man is "unmeasurable", by the technology of mankind. BD

Yet God looks upon sin all the time by observing the people he created on Earth. He also looked upon sin in heaven with the fall of Lucifer and the angels. So regardless of what the dogma says, I'd have to say that God can indeed witness sin as He does it all the time.

However, I get your point about purging sin before entrance into heaven.

[waterdog]

I feel that the soul of a human is our spiritual energy - our connection with the cosmic universe (God, a higher power, "the force" - whatever you want to call it), that never dies, even though our human body does.

[sparks]

I feel that the soul of a human is our spiritual energy - our connection with the cosmic universe (God, a higher power, "the force" - whatever you want to call it), that never dies, even though our human body does.

Is that wishful thinking? Or dogma passed on by the Church?

[bluedog]

Yet God looks upon sin all the time by observing the people he created on Earth. He also looked upon sin in heaven with the fall of Lucifer and the angels. So regardless of what the dogma says, I'd have to say that God can indeed witness sin as He does it all the time.

However, I get your point about purging sin before entrance into heaven.

The terminology is simply "misunderstood"....to "look" upon sin in a favorable fashion(surely God has the ability to simply gaze upon sin, or he could not judge as to what actually constitutes "Sin")....there is no sin in the deity that we know as GOD, therefore Sin in any fashion is simply "unacceptable". Sin is merely "knowledge" and the understanding thereof. Is it a "sin" for a snake to act like a snake, of course not. Man was created in a "sin free" state, but because "man" chose to accept the power and responsibility of knowledge by "partaking" of the fruit that the "tree of knowledge" bears....Sin came upon the face of the earth. It(sin) came due to man accepting to believe that "knowledge" would give them the "power" to become as God, to choose their own actions. Once man had this knowledge that he indeed could choose his own fate....God simply let man be the master of his own destiny....As HE(God) told man to leave the care and comfort of the "home" that God had prepared for man to dwell in...He told man to leave and turn his back upon this "paradise" of protection, health and care.....as he could "look" upon them no more in their state of sin. Through one man's action sin came upon all mankind. Thus not "ALL" knowledge is good. This is the reason that children and the weakminded or mentally handi-capped can not be held accountable for their actions...for they "know not" to take the good of this world and to leave the evil(Isa.7:16)....they are simply unable to understand what is right and what is wrong, for sin to be sin it must be reasoned as a sin with the understanding thereof.....Thus the "only" way for mankind to be cleansed of Sin is by a covenant of "Grace".....as it was by one man's actions that brought sin into the world, one man's action is also responsible for defeating the action of sin.

(2.) Man's fall from Grace is simple to understand
Genesis 3:1-6
1. After creation, God placed Adam and Eve in a beautiful garden.
2. They were to dress and keep it.
3. They had access to the "tree of life" of which if they consumed they would live forever.
4. They were in "Paradise".
5. There was one thing that they were "forbidden" to do.
6. Eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
7. God told them in that day in which they did, they would surely die.

(3.) The TEMPTATION
1. The story of Man's temptation is found in Genesis 3:1-5
2. Eve was asked if God did not make "all" the things in the garden for the pleasure of man.
3. Eve replied they were allowed to partake from everything with the exception of the tree of knowledge.
4. She knew what she was told....if you eat thereof, you will surely die.
5. The "SERPENT" replied.....you will not surely die.
6. If you eat thereof...you will surely be as God. God knows this, that is why you are forbidden.


A. The "serpent" is Satan.
1. The word satan means "adversary"
2. The word Devil means "slanderer"
3. The Bible teaches that he is man''s true adversary
4. He is deceitful, even able to "transform" himself into an angel of light. (2 Cor. 11:14)
5. He is the one responsible for all mans temptations (Matthew 4:3)
6. He is always seeking someone to devour. (1 Peter 5:8)
7. Here in the garden he appears to Eve in the form of a Serpent.


B. Satan lures man to commit sin.
1. 2 Cor. 11:14 tells us this fact.
2. He told Eve the "opposite" of what God had told her.
3. He did not "change" the message much....just one word was added...NOT.
4. He tries to make sin look pleasurable to man

(3.) Adams and Eve's discovery that they had in fact sinned is found in Genesis 3: 6-13
1. First Eve eats of the tree.
2. Next she gives to Adam for to eat.
3. They realize that they are naked.
4. They sow fig leaves together to cover their nakedness.
5. They hear God coming, thus they hide.
6. God calls to them.
7. They respond that they are afraid because they are naked.
8. God asks them, who told them they are naked?
9. God asks them if they had eaten of the tree.
10. Man says that the woman gave it to him.
11. The woman says that the serpent gave it to her.


A. It's clear that Adam and Eve are in it together.
1. Sin often presents itself in the form of a friend.
2. Thus we learn that we must be careful just whom we make friends with. ( 1 Cor. 15:33)
3. Adam knew exactly what he was doing because Eve was his mate.


B. They tried to exercise their own righteousness.
1. When they discovered they were naked they hide their own nakedness.
2. In essence they were trying to cure their own sins.
3. When man sins he often thinks that he can correct it himself.
4. We can't according to Isaiah 64:6
5. "Our" righteousness can not cover our sins.


C. They played the "blame game".
1. Once their sin had been discovered they blamed each other.
2. Adam blamed both Eve and God..."THE WOMAN THAT "YOU" GAVE ME."
3. Eve blamed the serpent.
4. The fact is that we are all responsible for our sins and actions thereof.
5. Ezekiel 18:20 states such "The soul that sinneth it shall die, the Son shall "NOT" bear the iniquity of the father......"

(4.) The "consequences" of that first sin.
1. God cursed the serpent to go flat on its belly forever.
2. God promised enmity between the two forever.
3. God cursed the woman with the pain of childbirthing.
4. God cursed the ground upon which man walked and would have to toil to provide for his family to make his labor difficult.
5. The most important consequence of that sin was man lost his access to the tree of life, and was from that day forward cursed to die, in the flesh, and to be separated from God in daily communion....as God does not enter act with sin....with the exception to judge. BD

[sparks]

The terminology is simply "misunderstood"....to "look" upon sin in a favorable fashion(surely God has the ability to simply gaze upon sin, or he could not judge as to what actually constitutes "Sin")....there is no sin in the deity that we know as GOD, therefore Sin in any fashion is simply "unacceptable". Sin is merely "knowledge" and the understanding thereof. Is it a "sin" for a snake to act like a snake, of course not. Man was created in a "sin free" state, but because "man" chose to accept the power and responsibility of knowledge by "partaking" of the fruit that the "tree of knowledge" bears....Sin came upon the face of the earth. It(sin) came due to man accepting to believe that "knowledge" would give them the "power" to become as God, to choose their own actions. Once man had this knowledge that he indeed could choose his own fate....God simply let man be the master of his own destiny....As HE(God) told man to leave the care and comfort of the "home" that God had prepared for man to dwell in...He told man to leave and turn his back upon this "paradise" of protection, health and care.....as he could "look" upon them no more in their state of sin. Through one man's action sin came upon all mankind. Thus not "ALL" knowledge is good. This is the reason that children and the weakminded or mentally handi-capped can not be held accountable for their actions...for they "know not" to take the good of this world and to leave the evil(Isa.7:16)....they are simply unable to understand what is right and what is wrong, for sin to be sin it must be reasoned as a sin with the understanding thereof.....Thus the "only" way for mankind to be cleansed of Sin is by a covenant of "Grace".....as it was by one man's actions that brought sin into the world, one man's action is also responsible for defeating the action of sin.

(2.) Man's fall from Grace is simple to understand
Genesis 3:1-6
1. After creation, God placed Adam and Eve in a beautiful garden.
2. They were to dress and keep it.
3. They had access to the "tree of life" of which if they consumed they would live forever.
4. They were in "Paradise".
5. There was one thing that they were "forbidden" to do.
6. Eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
7. God told them in that day in which they did, they would surely die.

(3.) The TEMPTATION
1. The story of Man's temptation is found in Genesis 3:1-5
2. Eve was asked if God did not make "all" the things in the garden for the pleasure of man.
3. Eve replied they were allowed to partake from everything with the exception of the tree of knowledge.
4. She knew what she was told....if you eat thereof, you will surely die.
5. The "SERPENT" replied.....you will not surely die.
6. If you eat thereof...you will surely be as God. God knows this, that is why you are forbidden.


A. The "serpent" is Satan.
1. The word satan means "adversary"
2. The word Devil means "slanderer"
3. The Bible teaches that he is man''s true adversary
4. He is deceitful, even able to "transform" himself into an angel of light. (2 Cor. 11:14)
5. He is the one responsible for all mans temptations (Matthew 4:3)
6. He is always seeking someone to devour. (1 Peter 5:8)
7. Here in the garden he appears to Eve in the form of a Serpent.


B. Satan lures man to commit sin.
1. 2 Cor. 11:14 tells us this fact.
2. He told Eve the "opposite" of what God had told her.
3. He did not "change" the message much....just one word was added...NOT.
4. He tries to make sin look pleasurable to man

(3.) Adams and Eve's discovery that they had in fact sinned is found in Genesis 3: 6-13
1. First Eve eats of the tree.
2. Next she gives to Adam for to eat.
3. They realize that they are naked.
4. They sow fig leaves together to cover their nakedness.
5. They hear God coming, thus they hide.
6. God calls to them.
7. They respond that they are afraid because they are naked.
8. God asks them, who told them they are naked?
9. God asks them if they had eaten of the tree.
10. Man says that the woman gave it to him.
11. The woman says that the serpent gave it to her.


A. It's clear that Adam and Eve are in it together.
1. Sin often presents itself in the form of a friend.
2. Thus we learn that we must be careful just whom we make friends with. ( 1 Cor. 15:33)
3. Adam knew exactly what he was doing because Eve was his mate.


B. They tried to exercise their own righteousness.
1. When they discovered they were naked they hide their own nakedness.
2. In essence they were trying to cure their own sins.
3. When man sins he often thinks that he can correct it himself.
4. We can't according to Isaiah 64:6
5. "Our" righteousness can not cover our sins.


C. They played the "blame game".
1. Once their sin had been discovered they blamed each other.
2. Adam blamed both Eve and God..."THE WOMAN THAT "YOU" GAVE ME."
3. Eve blamed the serpent.
4. The fact is that we are all responsible for our sins and actions thereof.
5. Ezekiel 18:20 states such "The soul that sinneth it shall die, the Son shall "NOT" bear the iniquity of the father......"

(4.) The "consequences" of that first sin.
1. God cursed the serpent to go flat on its belly forever.
2. God promised enmity between the two forever.
3. God cursed the woman with the pain of childbirthing.
4. God cursed the ground upon which man walked and would have to toil to provide for his family to make his labor difficult.
5. The most important consequence of that sin was man lost his access to the tree of life, and was from that day forward cursed to die, in the flesh, and to be separated from God in daily communion....as God does not enter act with sin....with the exception to judge. BD


I feel like I'm having a conversation with a textbook rather than a human being.

[The Q]

That's all fine and good, BD, but what if you don't believe in the bible? :lol

ADQ

[bluedog]

That's all fine and good, BD, but what if you don't believe in the bible? :lol

ADQ

What does it matter if you believe or not? Because you choose not to believe does not make the truth thereof any less truthful, as God does not depend upon your acceptance to exist. The choice is your's to make, just as are the consequences of that choice. If you are happy, in your choice that is great. But the truth is something that is not made by choice....it is either true or it is not. It's much more of a simple thing to declare that "you" do not believe in the authority of the Bible than to make a pretense of political correctness....If one accepts the authority of the Bible, then one must live by it's concept of truth...or declare oneself a hypocrite. One can not stand with one foot in the secular world and the other on some holy document....for then they serve neither and are simply blown in the wind of political correctness.

As this nation owes its very existence to the facts of scriptural truth...that being that faith indeed served as a basis to the foundation of even our very legal system and the basis for us "declaring" our independence in such a fashion as to proclaim the notion of "unalienable"(not able to place legal limits on) rights and an "endowment" form a creator who made all men "equal", and intended them to have "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

It's sad to say that now we are living under a different set of values and rules with the "secular" commandments being issued form our Mt. Siana of higher courts....such as.......

1.Thou shalt not pray in public schools, even if the students and faculty by majority want such prayers offered.
2. Thou shalt not allow Nativity Scenes to be placed upon public property....even if the public by majority want such displays.
3. Thou shalt not display the Ten Commandments in public, anywhere.
4. Thou shalt not permit teachers to have even their personal Bibles in the class room, or students to mention Bible verse in any essay or speech.
5. Thou shalt not pray at any graduation ceremony or sporting event, or in mixed company.
6.Thou shall not allow Boy Scouts, who promote religious and moral values, the use of public property.
7.Thou shalt not allow crosses on any war memorials.
8. Thou shalt not say the words "under God" in any pledge.
9. Thou shat not dare define marriage as between a man and woman only.
10. Thou shall not teach creation or intelligent design or any understanding of human origin except that of evolution....in theory only.

And all this despite the actual truth to our nations history....such as

John Adams said, "the general principals upon which our founders achieved independence......were based upon the principals of Christianity.

James Madison, considered the father of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights...although an opponent of theocracy, still declared, "Religion is the basis and foundation of all Government."

It is true that a Wall of Separation now exists in our legal system...but it was not built the day that our constitution was scripted....in fact this nation existed without the concept of the separation clause for over 150 years, until Justice Black opined and built this structure in 1947...while referencing a private letter scripted to a group of Baptist preachers by none other than Thomas Jefferson, and using a constitutional amendment as the tool of preference to justify the building of the wall that now exists. In fact if you want to "actually" see the wording of such in a constitution....one must look at the 1936 constitution drafted in the Soviet Union....a Communist Constitution. BD

[The Q]

You must be the most successful missionary in your church. I'm convinced! Sign me up for Team Jesus!

:woot

:roll

ADQ

[The Q]

That might be the best post you've ever made here Look.

ADQ

[AYFR]

The soul is who we are. It is what makes us us. It is a combination of our personalities, character, morals, and conscience. The body is just a shell, a vessel for the soul the reside in. The soul is eternal while the body is finite.

[issac the dragon]

Yes, those fine moral values that not only condoned but urged the Christians to commit genocide against my people. The morally sanctioned owning and abusing and raping of black people. The denial of rights to one half of their own kind, the females. The burning of withches. But I'm sure I'm boring you bbrown so I won't go on, though we both know I could.

[AYFR]

I don't know of any Christian that condones genocide or abuse. Golly I love stereotyping.

[issac the dragon]

The reference was to the Christian values this country was founded upon. I have a problem with them.

[The Q]

Look, I asked you not to insult people in the moderated forums.
I can upgrade you for free to the paid areas if you want to post in the unmoderated area, but you need to send me a PM.

Otherwise, cut it out.

Gracias,

ADQ

[sparks]

Look, I asked you not to insult people in the moderated forums.
I can upgrade you for free to the paid areas if you want to post in the unmoderated area, but you need to send me a PM.

Otherwise, cut it out.

Gracias,

ADQ

Is the Big House option looking viable? :lmao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUySLk7YuSo

[The Q]

The problem is that if we put him in there, he's just going to keep posting nonsense as if it is his own personal blog. :lol

ADQ

[cassandra]

Thankfully we have the perfect solution. Blocking people who annoy you puts 3 years back into your life. :D

[The Q]

I don't have that option. :roll

ADQ

[sparks]

Thankfully we have the perfect solution. Blocking people who annoy you puts 3 years back into your life. :D

:lmao

[issac the dragon]

:zen To all the poor mods and admin., I suggest zen, or TM. It might help. Or a large glass of whatever you like. Wine, JD, a cold brew. I feel for you.

[The Q]

Did we insult you? Uh. No.

And as much as I like to pay hundreds of dollars out of my own pocket for hosting fees, I really don't think that asking people to pay less than $1 a month for something they use every day is really money grubbing.

If you do, however, I have some excellent suggestions for some free (albeit inferior) boards.

ADQ

[AYFR]

that Ken.e over ate AWE is WARPED MIND.

You don't know how wrong you are.

I am or was warped mind.

The reference was to the Christian values this country was founded upon. I have a problem with them.

Those were not Christian values. Those were man's twisting of them. So wrong again.

[Viki]

Melissa and I were just discussing the difference this morning between defining the USA as a "Christian" nation (I don't) or as one founded on Judeo-Christian values (I do), mixed with a healthy dose of Diesm and the quest for political and religious freedom.

I, for one, don't have any problem with any of those.

Honestly, in the moment, I'm not sure exactly what I mean by "Judeo-Christian" values, but I suspect that the reason I can't quite call them to mind, clicking them quickly off the fingers of both hands ... :mike
is NOT because they haven't defined the quality and character of our national identity, but rather because they so have defined that character that most of us are deeply embedded in them and so, like air, we take them for granted.

If I can pretend some distance (and some small acuity of mind after suffering a pretty good dose of ill health all night), those values would include:

a premium on hard work as gift and charge
faith that life is meaningful
a strong sense of the body politic
the importance of family and community
a generous sense of the need for forgiveness and second chances
the strengths and weaknesses associated with a strong sense that we, as a nation, have been blessed by God with unique opportunities
a pernnial sense of optimism

OK, going brain dead, but I gave it a go.

[issac the dragon]

Just for the sake of argument, aren't those things pretty universal? The fact that we have more things is because of the choice of the people and the business world to share the wealth. And the demands of labor unions. That attitude doesn't exist any longer in the business world, thanks to the neo-cons who want 99.96%. It was only after world wars and the industrial revolution that we became that way. And it was brief.

The people in every country in the world work hard. Most a lot harder than we do, but their business owners don't believe in sharing either.
Faith is much stronger in many countries.
Their families are closer to them than ours are. And all the rest. I think we are making a mistake of thinking there is something special about us. We all are basically the same. The human race. Same needs, wants, hurts.

[Saguaro]

I was just over at hippymom


I laughed so much from the follow on posts to DO YOU HAVE A SOUL.......that it was worth the infractions.........SAME HERE ;-)


I'm not understanding this having to pay to be insulting when you guys insult me for free ........THATS RAPE ya buncha hookers.


:theman

GOD KNOWS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_O43uqQ7c

:godzilla

Please refer to my post that you are more than welcome to host to your own forum site

[Viki]

Just for the sake of argument, aren't those things pretty universal? The fact that we have more things is because of the choice of the people and the business world to share the wealth. And the demands of labor unions. That attitude doesn't exist any longer in the business world, thanks to the neo-cons who want 99.96%. It was only after world wars and the industrial revolution that we became that way. And it was brief.

The people in every country in the world work hard. Most a lot harder than we do, but their business owners don't believe in sharing either.
Faith is much stronger in many countries.
Their families are closer to them than ours are. And all the rest. I think we are making a mistake of thinking there is something special about us. We all are basically the same. The human race. Same needs, wants, hurts.

Nothing you say doesn't make sense, but I'll stand by the statement that each country, like each family unit, every business, and the congregations I work with from a systems perspective, each have unique qualities and characters formed at their birth and shaped by their experiences.

It's not that there are no "blues" other places in the world, but the shades, and the proportions, differ.