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Indy
11-30-2006, 10:46 AM
Soldier's coffin at center of furor


Some officials skeptical of mishandling report


Joseph Spector
Staff writer


(November 30, 2006) — A woman says she saw a soldier's flag-draped coffin put into a cart with passengers' baggage last month at the Greater Rochester International Airport, shocking her and other onlookers.

"It looked awful, just awful," Cynthia Hoag, 56, of Dansville, Livingston County, said Wednesday. "Maybe we made too much out of it, but it was very disturbing to us. If that had been my son, I would have been very upset."

Officials dispute Hoag's story, saying it is implausible. They did not disclose the name of the fallen soldier, but he appears to be Army Sgt. 1st Class Tony Knier of Sabinsville, Pa., who was killed in Iraq on Oct. 21.

A Pennsylvania funeral director confirmed on Wednesday night that he transported Knier's body from the Rochester airport on Oct. 27, the day Hoag was there. Monroe County officials said the coffin was being taken to Pennsylvania.

Knier's mother was appalled when she was told Wednesday night that the incident might have involved the body of her 31-year-old son, a husband and father of three young children. Knier's funeral was Oct. 31 near his home in Wellsboro, Pa.

"If that's what that lady saw, I'm outraged. I'm really upset, because my son died for this country. " said Betty Tidwell, who lives in Tennessee. "He gave all he had to this country. And for them to do that to him, that just upsets the hell out of me."

Hoag wrote an op-ed essay that was published Tuesday in the Democrat and Chronicle, describing what she says she saw.

Based on Hoag's account, Monroe County Executive Maggie Brooks called on the federal government Wednesday to change procedures to prevent a similar incident, saying what happened is an "outrage."

Hoag explained that as she waited at the airport with friends, she saw a soldier in uniform standing at attention near a commercial airplane as the luggage came off. She then saw a coffin draped with an American flag come down a luggage conveyor on the runway.

The coffin was put into a baggage cart with other luggage and driven off with the uniformed soldier in the cart.

"I saw the casket of a fallen soldier, saluted by a lone soldier, and then placed in a baggage cart," she wrote. "Baggage."

Defense Department spokeswoman Cynthia Smith was unaware of the incident late Wednesday but said the witness' description doesn't correlate with military procedure.

Remains from a soldier killed in Iraq are taken to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, then usually flown to a soldier's home, she said. Military escorts accompany each flight, whether domestic or military. When the coffin reaches the home area, it is met by an honor guard of two people and then transported to a funeral home, she said.

"We do everything to ensure that proper respect is given to the fallen service members and their families," Smith said.

Airport officials said it's a problem that notification of the airport is not required when a soldier's coffin is en route. Airport Director David Damelio said he wasn't aware that the soldier's body had been transported through Rochester until Hoag's letter was published.

"We're not notified unless the military or the family chooses to notify us," he said, adding that the airport often makes special arrangements at the request of soldiers' families.

Yet Damelio said Hoag's story doesn't make sense and said the Defense Department has always shown great care with soldiers' coffins.

Procedurally, a coffin wouldn't come down a luggage belt with other baggage, he said.

Also, a baggage cart isn't large enough to fit a coffin and other luggage, he said.

"It couldn't happen. It's physically impossible," Damelio said.

He said the airport was unable to find video of the incident.

Nonetheless, the witness' description prompted Brooks to urge the Defense Department to change policies on the transportation of the coffins of dead soldiers.

"It is unfathomable to me that our federal government would allow a fallen military hero to be returned home in this manner, and then transport him along with someone's checked luggage," Brooks, a Republican, wrote in a terse letter to the Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England.

Brooks said the Defense Department should be required to notify an airport when the coffin of a fallen soldier is being transported so that proper arrangements are ensured.

"I am asking you to do whatever is necessary to end this abhorrent practice," Brooks wrote. "Our military personnel and our veterans deserve better."

JSPECTOR@DemocratandChronicle.com



http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/NEWS01/611300369


So, is it an acceptable practice to put dead soldiers' coffins in with regular luggage?

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 10:56 AM
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/NEWS01/611300369


So, is it an acceptable practice to put dead soldiers' coffins in with regular luggage?

EEEW! No!

Kurtz
11-30-2006, 10:56 AM
To answer your question: HELL NO!

MW
11-30-2006, 11:01 AM
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061130/NEWS01/611300369


So, is it an acceptable practice to put dead soldiers' coffins in with regular luggage?

If it actually happened, then no. I don't think that it did - just one woman's accounting.

Kurtz
11-30-2006, 11:04 AM
If it actually happened, then no. I don't think that it did - just one woman's accounting.
Yeah, it's hard to believe our government would do this, then again I have a hard time believing Bush is president. I hope it's not true, well, I know Bush isn't really the president, but I hope the woman is mistaken.

Indy
11-30-2006, 11:08 AM
I would think military coffins would be transported via U.S. military planes, not commercial airline carriers.

FunDeeMental
11-30-2006, 11:15 AM
How did the flag stay draped on the coffin? :cuckoo They can't even manage to get my suitcase off the plane without breaking the handle off so how in the world could a coffin keep a flag draped over it??? Makes no sense.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 11:16 AM
I would think military coffins would be transported via U.S. military planes, not commercial airline carriers.

Actually, they fly within the US on commercial airlines, just like any other body.

MW
11-30-2006, 11:23 AM
How did the flag stay draped on the coffin? :cuckoo They can't even manage to get my suitcase off the plane without breaking the handle off so how in the world could a coffin keep a flag draped over it??? Makes no sense.

:agree

Kitka
11-30-2006, 11:44 AM
No, I do not. I would be absolutely furious.

WilliamJ
11-30-2006, 01:33 PM
Yeah, it's hard to believe our government would do this, then again I have a hard time believing Bush is president. I hope it's not true, well, I know Bush isn't really the president, but I hope the woman is mistaken.

God you leftists are pieces of work.

This is not the fault of the government. It is the fault of the individuals involved. Only a complete Fing moron (or democrat) would not know that putting the coffin of a soilder killed in battle on a cart with other bags is stupid.

You on the left think the government is responsible for every bird that falls from the f**king sky.

That is a very large part of the problem in this country.

And of course you turn it into a 'I hate Bush' rant.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 01:40 PM
God you leftists are pieces of work.

This is not the fault of the government. It is the fault of the individuals involved. Only a complete Fing moron (or democrat) would not know that putting the coffin of a soilder killed in battle on a cart with other bags is stupid.

You on the left think the government is responsible for every bird that falls from the f**king sky.

That is a very large part of the problem in this country.

And of course you turn it into a 'I hate Bush' rant.

As opposed to an "I hate liberals" rant. :lol Psst... I am starting to like this box you keep placing us in. Mind if I put up wallpaper and curtains? :rofl

Indy
11-30-2006, 01:41 PM
As opposed to an "I hate liberals" rant. :lol Psst... I am starting to like this box you keep placing us in. Mind if I put up wallpaper and curtains? :rofl

US? You told me last night that you're not a liberal.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 01:42 PM
US? You told me last night that you're not a liberal.

I said I was not liberal on everything, and as you can see on the sex thread, I am not. But I am fairly sure I am still being placed in the box, so why should I live with just plain old cardboard?

Semantics
11-30-2006, 01:45 PM
I'm firmly in the box, too.

Just ignore the fact that I oppose abortion, support the 2nd Amendment, etc.

I'm a filthy socialist.

Don't fight it, Tater. It just makes it worse. :lol

MW
11-30-2006, 01:51 PM
Just ignore the fact that I oppose abortion, support the 2nd Amendment, etc.

so do I, but I"m not in the box.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 01:52 PM
so do I, but I"m not in the box.

Of course not. You flirt with them, so they let you stay out.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 01:53 PM
I'm firmly in the box, too.

Just ignore the fact that I oppose abortion, support the 2nd Amendment, etc.

I'm a filthy socialist.

Don't fight it, Tater. It just makes it worse. :lol

I am not fighting it, I just want me some curtains and wallpaper, dammit!

MW
11-30-2006, 02:07 PM
Of course not. You flirt with them, so they let you stay out.

I flirt with everyone - I am an equal-opportunity flirter :yep

Phoenix
11-30-2006, 02:29 PM
:no That can't be true.

WilliamJ
11-30-2006, 03:23 PM
As opposed to an "I hate liberals" rant. :lol Psst... I am starting to like this box you keep placing us in. Mind if I put up wallpaper and curtains? :rofl

The difference is I don't pretend I don't hate leftist/socialist you pretend not to hate Bush and conservatives.

It is called Hypocracy.

Actually my political hatred is reserved mainly for the Clintons and spills over to a few others in the dem leadership....

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 03:27 PM
The difference is I don't pretend I don't hate leftist/socialist you pretend not to hate Bush and conservatives.

It is called Hypocracy.

Actually my political hatred is reserved mainly for the Clintons and spills over to a few others in the dem leadership....

LMFAO. I don't hate all conservatives. I have a few in my family I am quite fond of. I happen to also be conservative on many issues... and I do not hate myself, lol.

I don't hate Bush. I dispise most of the things he has done and I heartily fight against a lot of what he stands for, but I do not "hate" him.

But again, thanks for the box. I was sent flowers to place in it and it is starting to look quite homey. :)

Indy
11-30-2006, 03:28 PM
LMFAO. I don't hate all conservatives. I have a few in my family I am quite fond of. I happen to also be conservative on many issues... and I do not hate myself, lol.

I don't hate Bush. I dispise most of the things he has done and I heartily fight against a lot of what he stands for, but I do not "hate" him.

But again, thanks for the box. I was sent flowers to place in it and it is starting to look quite homey. :)

:huh

WilliamJ
11-30-2006, 03:29 PM
LMFAO. I don't hate all conservatives. I have a few in my family I am quite fond of. I happen to also be conservative on many issues... and I do not hate myself, lol.

I don't hate Bush. I dispise most of the things he has done and I heartily fight against a lot of what he stands for, but I do not "hate" him.

But again, thanks for the box. I was sent flowers to place in it and it is starting to look quite homey. :)

On what issues are you conservative? Be specific?

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 03:30 PM
On what issues are you conservative? Be specific?

Nah. I don't particularly feel the need to discuss my beliefs with you, lol.:cuckoo

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 03:30 PM
:huh

:lick

Indy
11-30-2006, 03:35 PM
Nah. I don't particularly feel the need to discuss my beliefs with you, lol.:cuckoo

:huh

Indy
11-30-2006, 03:36 PM
On what issues are you conservative? Be specific?

She claims to be conservative on immigration and drugs. That is yet to be seen.

Wabash
11-30-2006, 03:40 PM
Yeah, it's hard to believe our government would do this, then again I have a hard time believing Bush is president. I hope it's not true, well, I know Bush isn't really the president, but I hope the woman is mistaken.

Oh HOGWASH!

Wabash
11-30-2006, 03:43 PM
Tater: "I happen to also be conservative on many issues... and I do not hate myself, lol."

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAA!
:rofl2 :ohyeah :ohyeah :ohyeah :lmao :lmao :rofl :rofl

that's about it...I'm all laughed out!

Wabash
11-30-2006, 03:45 PM
:pics :pics

Ok, let's see you slide that condom over your head Tater...oh, take off the sprouts first so it will slide easier...:wink

WilliamJ
11-30-2006, 03:46 PM
Nah. I don't particularly feel the need to discuss my beliefs with you, lol.:cuckoo

That is what I would say if I said I had leftist beliefs and was asked to enumerate them.

In short your a liar.

WilliamJ
11-30-2006, 03:47 PM
She claims to be conservative on immigration and drugs. That is yet to be seen.

I will wait for her to answer ,thank you.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 03:52 PM
That is what I would say if I said I had leftist beliefs and was asked to enumerate them.

In short your a liar.

LMFAO. I am sorry. Can I please see your "In charge of telling everyone what to say and do" card, because last I looked, no one had to what you wanted them to. Sorry if the rest of us do not feel like meeting your demands.

And if you choose to perceive me as a liar, that is your right. You would be wrong, but you clearly are allowed to be wrong.

You see, most people are dynamic and have opinions that may vary widely from what one party or another has as their ideology. If that is hard for you to believe, what could I possibly say to convince you?

So no, I will not be expounding on anything to please you. Even if I did, you would say I was lying.

FunDeeMental
11-30-2006, 03:56 PM
What was this thread about again? :huh

WilliamJ
11-30-2006, 03:59 PM
LMFAO. I am sorry. Can I please see your "In charge of telling everyone what to say and do" card, because last I looked, no one had to what you wanted them to. Sorry if the rest of us do not feel like meeting your demands.

And if you choose to perceive me as a liar, that is your right. You would be wrong, but you clearly are allowed to be wrong.

You see, most people are dynamic and have opinions that may vary widely from what one party or another has as their ideology. If that is hard for you to believe, what could I possibly say to convince you?

So no, I will not be expounding on anything to please you. Even if I did, you would say I was lying.


So basically you have no conservative views and are a liar.

That is how i perceive it until you show otherwise.

And no you don't have to answer but if you are going to claim something you should be happy to show it.

The word is LIAR.

AnnEsthesia
11-30-2006, 04:02 PM
So basically you have no conservative views and are a liar.

That is how i perceive it until you show otherwise.

And no you don't have to answer but if you are going to claim something you should be happy to show it.

The word is LIAR.

Sorry, I do not have to prove anything to you, you precious child. Yep, you sure are one cool person! :woot

Matt
12-05-2006, 09:36 PM
The difference is I don't pretend I don't hate leftist/socialist you pretend not to hate Bush and conservatives.

It is called Hypocracy.

Actually my political hatred is reserved mainly for the Clintons and spills over to a few others in the dem leadership....

WJC is an equal opportunity hater.
Sort of eliminates the need for hypocrisy. :wink
He doesn't fit into any box unless it's a boxing ring. He loves to challenge people to a fight, label people and appears to have limited abilities with language ~ thereby forcing him to use the f word a lot.
He's just a big teddy bear.

quiet man
12-05-2006, 10:21 PM
military flights to us soil then accompanied domestic flights to the bodys' destination. this just appalls me to think this could have happened to anybodys relative. don't know what else to say.

quiet man
12-05-2006, 10:36 PM
So basically you have no conservative views and are a liar.

That is how i perceive it until you show otherwise.

And no you don't have to answer but if you are going to claim something you should be happy to show it.

The word is LIAR.somebody die and make you judge and jury? you pompous self centered ass. we all have an opinion . this forum is to express thoughts and ideas. you are not qualified to judge NO ONE.

MW
12-06-2006, 12:16 AM
:focus

Has there been any updates on this story? Or did it die (meaning that the initial witness didn't pan out with facts)?

Indy
12-06-2006, 12:25 AM
WJ and TB, would you guys mind getting a room? You two fight like an old married couple. :snicker

Indy
12-06-2006, 12:25 AM
:focus

Has there been any updates on this story? Or did it die (meaning that the initial witness didn't pan out with facts)?

I have not seen any updates yet.

TrueBlue
12-10-2006, 02:20 PM
So basically you have no conservative views and are a liar.

That is how i perceive it until you show otherwise.

And no you don't have to answer but if you are going to claim something you should be happy to show it.

The word is LIAR.

Watch how you talk to people, none of these threads are about the posters. The threads are about topics.

Wabash
12-10-2006, 02:22 PM
Watch how you talk to people, none of these threads are about the posters. The threads are about topics.

Shouldn't the topics be commented on by honest people instead of one's that make it up?

TrueBlue
12-10-2006, 02:23 PM
WJ and TB, would you guys mind getting a room? You two fight like an old married couple. :snicker

Indy, I hadn't even made a post in this thread when you made this comment.

TrueBlue
12-10-2006, 02:24 PM
Shouldn't the topics be commented on by honest people instead of one's that make it up?

No, you can post all you like. :shrug

AnnEsthesia
12-10-2006, 02:27 PM
No, you can post all you like. :shrug

LMAO

Kurtz
12-10-2006, 02:30 PM
No, you can post all you like. :shrug
:clap :clap :clap :rofl

Sassafras
12-10-2006, 02:42 PM
No, you can post all you like. :shrug

:rofl