When did opinions get outlawed?

[kaaryn]

By JOSEPH QUESNEL -- Sun Media
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/07/28/4375735-sun.html


Imagine a society where people were free to express their opinions on most subjects, no matter how unpopular, and the only thing standing in their way was the sanction of open debate and public scrutiny.

In other words, it would be a society where adults were treated as adults.

This society cannot become reality as long as human rights commissions exist in their current form.

This transcends ideological lines, as it is not good in any society to always have to look over your shoulder or watch what you say in case the thought police are on your tail.

Created by legislation, these tribunals have become a way for mainly left-wing interest groups to bypass elected legislatures and criminalize opinion they dislike.

At the drop of a hat, a complaint often triggers an investigation that can ruin lives and reputations for the crime of holding dissident opinions. Truth is also not a defence in answering the charges.

These bodies should either be radically reformed or abolished, and the human rights legislation they enforce should be changed. It should not be so easy in this country to haul someone before a tribunal for speaking their mind. Perhaps it is time that courts, with more rigorous standards of due process, handle such claims.

As I write, two cases before human rights commissions demonstrate the need for reform. The first involves Stephen Boisson, a former youth pastor, who faces sanction for writing a letter to the Red Deer Advocate, expressing his opinions about literature on homosexuality in school libraries. Using strong language in making his arguments, Boisson was investigated by the commission after a professor filed a complaint.

Rather than deal with the arguments rationally, the thin-skinned academic decided criminal sanction was the way to respond.

Even Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere (EGALE), a pro-gay lobby group, has backed off the case, stressing they believe in Boisson's rights to his opinions, even though they don't agree with them.

For this, EGALE deserves credit. Perhaps they realize human rights commissions are a tool that could also be fixed on them.

The other scenario pits a conservative online forum called Free Dominion against an individual who launched a human rights complaint against the site and its owners for daring to allow posts the individual complaining considers critical of radical Islam.

For disclosure, I will say that I post there.

One of the owners of the site, Connie Wilkins, has pointed out that the attack on her forum is an assault against freedom of expression on the Internet.

"It is not a conservative issue. It is not even a Free Dominion issue. The issue here is free speech. The point needs to be made that if the Canadian Human Rights Commission decides to rule against Free Dominion, they might as well just shut down every other Canadian Internet forum right away because they will all be doomed," she wrote.

Even left-wing forums critical of Americans or Evangelical Christians, she added, could face similar attacks.

Let's hope she's not right and that there is time for change.

[Saguaro]

Opinions are fine,if when they are stated, isn't insulting.We each have our own opinions based on our life experiences.

[The Q]

I don't think it is a purely conservative issue. I think it is on both sides where people who have extreme ideologies do not want anything around that challenges their interpretation of reality.

ADQ

[cassandra]

I agree with Q. All people have extremes and no person is actually open to all ideas.

[quiet man]

we must keep our eyes and ears open to the trend of guilt by association. we cannot allow this theory to start to be a lightning rod of "justice". :drevil :hotdog :hotdog

[bbrown]

I think it's going to get worse. College campuses are a hotbed of sensitivity and have been for about 15 years. I once wanted to be a professor but the once-vaunted academic freedom is largely freedom with boundaries--quite a change from the past.

In fact, the liberals that got into the universities in the sixties and fought so hard for academic freedom are the ones leading the persecution of those who disagree.

(I'm sure there is someone here who will assert that there's no liberal bias in academia just like there's none in the media. I can say that it's worse than you could possibly imagine.)

Bill

[Saguaro]

It really depends on the school you are speaking about.Some Universities are extremely conservative.

[Trueblue]

It really depends on the school you are speaking about.Some Universities are extremely conservative.

Exactly right.

[sour_claw]

If you control what people can say you control what they will think. It is one of the most important steps in weakening a population for eventual slavery. Back to sleep sheep! We don't need new ideas, just repeat what we told you- your choices are not yours.

I agree that this is not a left/right issue as both Fascism and Communism use thought police in exactly the same way.

[kaaryn]

:yep Saguaro, I went to one of those :) But they're getting harder to find - you pretty much have to go to a fundamental religious college to get an environment that's entirely conservative.

[issac the dragon]

In America, the preferred method of disposing of a flag is to burn it. But when someone burns a flag in protest, mainly conservative people want to charge the person with a crime. Since the method of disposal is preferably burning, the offence is mental. What the protester is thinking. The right wing of the Republican party, with the compliance of all Republicans want to make it a crime to think anything that offends them. Even the human rights commisions don't try to imprison people, just censor them. Both are wrong. One is a whole lot more wrong.

[sparks]

I think it's going to get worse. College campuses are a hotbed of sensitivity and have been for about 15 years. I once wanted to be a professor but the once-vaunted academic freedom is largely freedom with boundaries--quite a change from the past.

In fact, the liberals that got into the universities in the sixties and fought so hard for academic freedom are the ones leading the persecution of those who disagree.

(I'm sure there is someone here who will assert that there's no liberal bias in academia just like there's none in the media. I can say that it's worse than you could possibly imagine.)

Bill

Your response surprises me in the sense that you are younger with small children and yet so very conservative that you would complain about the Liberalness in a college setting of today! :lol

I suppose I find that humorous, as that type of response usually comes from someone in their 60's or 70's...usually because life has changed so much from their younger years they just don't understand the world anymore!

Bill...how did you become such a fuddy duddy? :rofl

[bbrown]

It really depends on the school you are speaking about.Some Universities are extremely conservative.

What, like Bob Jones University? Sure. One need only look around Foundation for Individual Rights in Education's site (http://www.thefire.org/) to find some truly horrifying anecdotes centered on civility and inoffensiveness. I could relate plenty more from my experiences at Arizona State and a simple Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=political+correctness+on+campus) suggests that ASU is not an outlier on this.

Personally, I'm with Voltaire (http://www.quotegarden.com/censorship.html): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Instead now it's more like "I disapprove of what you say, and I'll be damned if anyone's going to hear it." (http://ruleofreason.blogspot.com/2007/04/john-lewis-and-battle-of-george-mason.htm)

And it's a sad state we're in. Freedom of speech used to be one of the things I had in common with liberals.

Bill

[bbrown]

The right wing of the Republican party, with the compliance of all Republicans want to make it a crime to think anything that offends them.

That's a big leap from anti-flag burning to out-and-out censorship. It just doesn't follow. If you want to excoriate the Republican Party or right wingers for censorship, I don't know why you'd trot out such a dated example when there's very real efforts going on right now at the FCC.

Bill

[bbrown]

Your response surprises me in the sense that you are younger with small children and yet so very conservative that you would complain about the Liberalness in a college setting of today! :lol

I'm not sure what you're deriding in my response. That I don't know what's going on in colleges today or that I'm young yet outraged by it? Is it possible that I could be young with small children yet recently enrolled in college? College isn't just for teenagers.

I suppose I find that humorous, as that type of response usually comes from someone in their 60's or 70's...usually because life has changed so much from their younger years they just don't understand the world anymore!

Bill...how did you become such a fuddy duddy? :rofl

Ahh, the ever-present insult disguised as an argument. Thank you for wrapping it up in such a nice package! Normally, I get the derision straight up.

It is not "fuddy duddy" to deplore the state of collegiate education. Dissent is not widely tolerated in the halls of academia and it once was the currency of the realm. Of course, that was when liberals were on the outside looking in. Once ensconced, the tune suddenly changed.

The leaders of tomorrow are produced in the colleges of today. If those colleges squelch critical thinking or encourage parroting of the party line, then we're in for some serious trouble. And I'm afraid that me and my kind will bear the brunt of it since we're on the wrong side.

Bill

[Saguaro]

You are speaking of one college .If you ever get into a university's administration, come talk to me.

[kaaryn]

Attending BJU - That's my dirty little secret :lol

Actually it's not a bad campus, if you're the right kind of person to be there. Turns out, I wasn't. :shrug

[The Q]

OMG. :rofl

Don't hate me Karen. For about ten seconds I seriously thought it was "Blow Job University" and I was totally SHOCKED at you. :lmao

On another message board we had a sex forum and one woman was handing out advice on how to uh...you know. And another woman tried her advice, with much success always referred to herself as a "graduate" of the school of BJ's. :rofl2

Ok, then. Carry on. :para

ADQ

[bbrown]

You are speaking of one college .If you ever get into a university's administration, come talk to me.

My personal experience is with one college. But the links I provided suggest that mine was not an isolated story. And I hope to never get into administration, thank you very much.

Bill

[sparks]

I'm not sure what you're deriding in my response. That I don't know what's going on in colleges today or that I'm young yet outraged by it? Is it possible that I could be young with small children yet recently enrolled in college? College isn't just for teenagers.

Ahh, the ever-present insult disguised as an argument. Thank you for wrapping it up in such a nice package! Normally, I get the derision straight up.

It is not "fuddy duddy" to deplore the state of collegiate education. Dissent is not widely tolerated in the halls of academia and it once was the currency of the realm. Of course, that was when liberals were on the outside looking in. Once ensconced, the tune suddenly changed.

The leaders of tomorrow are produced in the colleges of today. If those colleges squelch critical thinking or encourage parroting of the party line, then we're in for some serious trouble. And I'm afraid that me and my kind will bear the brunt of it since we're on the wrong side.

Bill

What surprised me was that you are younger and outraged by what's going on in the colleges. Usually younger people are not only very open minded, but they embrace change well. You speak as if you are a much older person who doesn't understand the world in which they live anymore.

I can assure you that no insult was intended. I merely made an observation that I have found to be true over the years concerning people who are older as compared to those who are younger.

It's been quite a while since I was in college, but when I was, independent thought and critical thinking was appreciated and honored at college. As a matter of fact I'd go as far as to say that independent thought and critical thinking was not only encouraged but the whole point of higher education! Thus your comments surprise me. :shrug

If I may ask, what exactly is it that you would like to see changed at the colleges today?

[cassandra]

It's been quite a while since I was in college, but when I was, independent thought and critical thinking was appreciated and honored at college. As a matter of fact I'd go as far as to say that independent thought and critical thinking was not only encouraged but the whole point of higher education! Thus your comments surprise me. :shrug

If I may ask, what exactly is it that you would like to see changed at the colleges today?

This is exactly the point. That independent thought and critical thinking are not seen as a virtue in universities. bbrown may be on the younger side of 60 but he can see something for what it is. You don't have to be old to see perspective.

[issac the dragon]

That's a big leap from anti-flag burning to out-and-out censorship. It just doesn't follow. If you want to excoriate the Republican Party or right wingers for censorship, I don't know why you'd trot out such a dated example when there's very real efforts going on right now at the FCC.

Bill

Oh, did the Republican party quit trying to pass an amendment to the Constitution outlawing it?

[Capitalist]

I think it's going to get worse. College campuses are a hotbed of sensitivity and have been for about 15 years. I once wanted to be a professor but the once-vaunted academic freedom is largely freedom with boundaries--quite a change from the past.

In fact, the liberals that got into the universities in the sixties and fought so hard for academic freedom are the ones leading the persecution of those who disagree.

(I'm sure there is someone here who will assert that there's no liberal bias in academia just like there's none in the media. I can say that it's worse than you could possibly imagine.)

Bill

Luckily in the us we have our BOR that protects and enforces the idea of individual not group rights.

Canada and Europe are examples of countries with free speech as long as you don't offend.

[Capitalist]

Oh, did the Republican party quit trying to pass an amendment to the Constitution outlawing it?

Porbaly not but they should.

[Capitalist]

What surprised me was that you are younger and outraged by what's going on in the colleges. Usually younger people are not only very open minded, but they embrace change well. You speak as if you are a much older person who doesn't understand the world in which they live anymore.

I can assure you that no insult was intended. I merely made an observation that I have found to be true over the years concerning people who are older as compared to those who are younger.

It's been quite a while since I was in college, but when I was, independent thought and critical thinking was appreciated and honored at college. As a matter of fact I'd go as far as to say that independent thought and critical thinking was not only encouraged but the whole point of higher education! Thus your comments surprise me. :shrug

If I may ask, what exactly is it that you would like to see changed at the colleges today?

It is easy to have an open mind when there is not much in it yet.

[Saguaro]

Or the closed minded person who needs to keep any brains they have locked in.

[Dano]

Opinions are fine,if when they are stated, isn't insulting.We each have our own opinions based on our life experiences.

In America, the preferred method of disposing of a flag is to burn it. But when someone burns a flag in protest, mainly conservative people want to charge the person with a crime. Since the method of disposal is preferably burning, the offence is mental. What the protester is thinking. The right wing of the Republican party, with the compliance of all Republicans want to make it a crime to think anything that offends them. Even the human rights commisions don't try to imprison people, just censor them. Both are wrong. One is a whole lot more wrong.


Insulting and offensive?

Are we becoming so fragile that we can't take a bit of disapproval?

And I'd say that it's not the conservatives that are overly sensitive to 'anything that offends them'.....

[toxic]

I think the college environment has changed, but I attribute it to the influx of many foreign immigrant professors. I wouldn't try to characterize the change, as it is probably some combination of the cultures of their countries of origin. I do think many are less familar with free speech and civil rights than those professors that preceeded them. I think those from the 60's and 70's are long retired.

One area that does concern me is the subtle threat of violence. In just the last week, I have seen phrases like:

"... lots of lockin & loadin in the background",

".....get a rope!!", and

some reference to having a fight.

I think people should be cautious about the use of such comments
or even the little graphics like :shoot :chuck

Those things could be considered a threat. I don't think we really know each other well enough here to discount such comments. Especially, comments from those that constantly remind us they are avid gun enthusiasts or extremely hateful of certain policies or peoples.

[The Q]

Awww, man.

I'll be thinking about Pogo-Satan and his mom. :heart

ADQ

I got an E-Mail from POGO-SATAN :lmao

he took the religion test and he's a PAGAN :lmao

BUT.....on a sadder note , His Mom has Cancer :blush2

So send some Angels....those who can.....those who can't....say a prayer :heart


OH YEAH........:oops.....I almost forgot.......He told me that Catsmeow from AWE sent me a message :vogue

it was this :lmao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3V-stPQlaM

YEP.....That's Catsmeow :wave

[GDogSamuraiWarrior]

Why in the first place should opinions be outlawed?
Unlawful attacks on opinions is what should be out
lawed you ask me. Because we all are entitle to
expressing our own opinions, but to say the opinion
don't mean anything, and violate a persons rights
is wrong.

As far as I am concerned I will always express my
opinions about racism,the War in the Middle East,
Islam/Muslim related discussions, and how I feel
about Bush or anyone else.